Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
louder

Is Brees done?

75 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, Saint ATN said:

Sadly Brees isn't going anywhere. I say sadly because I feel if we don't let him go and move on we're just prolonging the pain and the inevitable. 3 years in the playoffs, 3 years wondering what happened. He's on the decline and yet still puts up gaudy numbers that no other qb we'll get will be able to do or replicate, I totally get that. I'm not blind although I am technically in one eye.

I'm honestly not ready for the 4th year in a row of this but against my wishes, most likely tomorrow, Payton officially announces Brees returns for another year. "We're gonna give it one more try!" speech will follow and the rebuilding phase will officially start and Payton and Co. will go into their caves and plot who to resign, who to cut and where to prognosticate with the 24th pick in the draft is 4 months away. I don't see the front office nor our owner wanting to move on, just yet, although I feel it would be in everyone's best interests. Just my gut feeling, don't mean squat but Payton will ride this out as long as he can and we're just along for the ride at this point.

They're New Orleans legends, they made us the best we've ever been and possibly the best we've ever been has passed. Let's all try to act surprised next season at this time when we're once again here having this same discussion for the same reasons. Change is inevitable, we accept it or fight it, it seems this franchise is going to go into fighting it.  

I agree with this so much it isn't even funny. I have said before I love Brees, but if he chooses to play he will be Saint to our detriment. 

louder likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, sfidc2 said:

I respect both you guys and your takes but I believe you couldn't be more wrong on this....

It’s the way of the world... what have you done for me today?   Brees as our “detriment”?  Time to clean house ... why not get rid of Payton too? 😂

BTW, Brees played much better in his loss than Jackson did for the Ravens.

And 13-4 really sucks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/11/2020 at 10:58 AM, The gun slinger said:

Was this Brees last season? I don't know only Brees knows that. If Taysom Hill was hamded the keys to this offense he would not last a full season. Look at his college film,he plays with reckless abandon and he will be 31 next year his role on this team is defined. Teddy can be a very good qb for this team if given a chance. Regardless who is under center next season we have got to improve our guards. McCoy will improve but we have to upgrade our guards and find a future replacement for Armested. I don't know what will happen with free agency man,we got a lot of decisions to make this off season. 

He makes 30 in August.  He would have to change his style some... avoid most hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2020 at 11:19 AM, sfidc2 said:

Agreed, well put. I think Brees signs a contract similar to the last one and plays at least 1 more year possibly 2. Health is always an issue, the 9er's dline is now intact and shocker!!!! they stopped the Vikes cold. We need to bolster both lines with quality depth, let Peat walk as he has clearly regressed, I think Easton showed he was capable of holding down that G position. For those clamoring for a 2nd WR, I understand the notion but I also think Deonte Harris and Taysom will be more heavily involved in the passing game next year (especially if Brees comes back which i believe he will)....WR is not as high on the list of needs to me....Oline and dline depth and CB/S are more pressing IMO....

Getting Rankins and Davenport back, and the OL healthy would help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2020 at 7:41 PM, Saint ATN said:

73oo0f7pjfa41.jpg

 

Oh to dream, no way we'd get him but if you're gonna blow up a team and start with a new QB, this kid is worthy of consideration. Wouldn't he be great learning under the master? 

That would be a dream come true.   Unfortunately Joe will be running plays next year in Cincy 😢

Edited by Boris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sfidc2 said:

I respect both you guys and your takes but I believe you couldn't be more wrong on this....

I knew as I typed it, it would not be popular and outright dismissed and I'm fine being against the grain here. I'm away on some downtime so I've had time to contemplate it all. I look forward to being wrong, and I hope I am, however, I've learned to listen to my inner voice and this voice tends to lend itself toward the realist. As the token rally ape, I have an idea when and where to throw that hope out there. I keep searching my heart of hearts and the realist comes to the forefront for me and as I look at the picture as it stands currently then I cannot see it happening. It doesn't mean I don't hope to be proven wrong, I look forward to it, but I've been around awhile and see what it takes to get teams to the big dance and I look at where we've been and what we have to do to get back there and between the money and talent, we're at a deficit currently.

Along with money and talent is time, it's not on our side, we've sadly wasted some of Brees's best years with no trophies but one to show for it. I'm beyond happy we have one, it keeps us all in a warm glow forever, but it can't keep us warm forever. We're 10 years + past our team. We're serviceable and we're consistent but we're consistently less serviceable year after year in the playoffs we get further and further away. We were just bounced in the wild card round, with a 13-3 record, the game could have gone either way, we didn't get it done. We're all here again, wondering, so I got to wondering, is this our fate now, just wondering? It's a lot greater than wondering for decades why we didn't make the playoffs or the division crown. We just did it 3 times in a row, epic, first in our division to do so in the new alignment. Usually awesome stuff, stuff we used to revel in and just be thankful for, but again, no hardware. Now it's just expected, that's a great mindset change for a fanbase and franchise and one we're all happy to be spoiled in. Our expectations have been raised across the board and so our belief in that we can get another one, it's a legitimate thought and expectation given what Brees and Payton have served us up for 14 years. It takes talent, health, and luck to get there and to win it, and our time and window are close to closed and part of me feel like it's officially closed. We saw a year again of bad slanted officiating against our team, game after game affecting outcomes. Stats even proved this slanted news and there are questions over the last play of the game that the Vikings benefited from. 

To recap, we have a league showing bias against us, still, using penalties to affect outcomes of our games, a over the age of 40 elite QB playing ageless statistical brilliance, Teddy's situation, loss of coaches, O Line tweaking, injured players to return to full health, very limited cap room, major and minor players across the board to retain, that along the 24th pick. I stack it all up and look at it and I just don't logically see it. Loomis and company have done a herculean effort to keep us consistently where we have been and I hope he can pull it off and do it. The realist in me just can't and doesn't see it, the dreamer in me will hope eternally it somehow happens and will dream of a second Lombardi being hoisted into the air by Drew. The realist in me keeps winning this internal argument and I look forward to reality changing this, I'm just not expecting it at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Boris said:

It’s the way of the world... what have you done for me today?   Brees as our “detriment”?  Time to clean house ... why not get rid of Payton too? 😂

BTW, Brees played much better in his loss than Jackson did for the Ravens.

And 13-4 really sucks. 

I'm not opposed to letting Payton go either, blasphemy, sure, but change is inevitable, it's going to happen sometime in the future. How often do a coach and QB retire together? Please refresh my memory? These guys have been tied at the waist to a level and they've done amazing things and I hope they do more amazing things, but will they do it forever in Black and Gold, no. Payton is a great coach, greatest we've ever had, greatest in the game ever, no. Payton has proved consistently he can field a team, still call brilliant games, and can still overthink himself and lose a game. I believe he's built a successful team year after year with what Loomis has given him. Bress is not the coach, he is a coach on the field and the technician who runs the Payton concept to perfection. Payton and company didn't consistently have our team ready for a few games this year and those mattered, ATL comes to mind and the team didn't look ready for this year's Vikings game. That ATL game mattered greatly in our seeding and cost us a one-week bye, that bye we'll never know what would have happened but my gut tells me we do better with a week off than without one. How didn't Payton and company not adjust to the interior line, why did they put Peat in instead of Edwards who was holding his own prior to the Vikings game? Dunno, just looking at the fine print of the season and looking who's responsible where. I do this all the time as a business owner all the time, it's a mental exercise for me, good, bad, or indifferent. The coaches let the players down, thus the players let the team down. It all starts and stops at the top right, so it's not unacceptable to call out Payton for his failures? These all be it small decisions have big consequences and it's a fine nit-picking point but he's not without any fault in all this. Is it fireable in my opinion, no. 

Payton's situation is different from the Brees situation and he and Ireland have done an excellent job of finding amazing talent and depth across the board and keeping us viable.  Payton can still get it done, for the most part, Brees will further decline, time assures it, when, well we'll further know when we all see the results and collectively agree he's no longer viable. Payton has gotten better with age somewhat. So we either agree to sacrifice another year for another try or finally move on. Many are fine with this current status quo and I'd be lying if I didn't say a bit of that resides in me, but the pioneer in me craves the inevitable change that the winds will bring in time regardless. I'm not into prolonging the inevitable, I prefer to rip that bandaid off and heal with time. Others aren't ready for that pain, I get that, I feel you, I want the prize again too, I'm just not convinced anymore.

louder and Richard like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it makes everyone feel a little better, the only team unlike the Saints in their Super Bowl futility, in the Free Agent era, is the New England Patriots.

Realistically, the Saints are not an over the hill team.  Their average age is 26.2, which ranks 21st, of course the youngest average is the Dolphins averaging 25.2, the oldest, the Patriots at 27.0. 

I just don’t get the “move on” idea. We have a great team, that played a bad game.  We have a strong core. We arguably should have reached the Super Bowl the past two years, except for the horrible play by a rookie and a terrible no call.  I agree the bye is a big deal, ask the Patriots who lost to the Dolphins with their destiny in their hands.   The Saints lost to the Rams when their QB was knocked out of the game and the 49ers by 2 after Brees drove them to the go ahead score.  The loss to a division rival was tough, but the Falcons are no slouches when playing well, ask the 49ers?

Fortunately, I think the people in power and in the know, Gayle Benson, Loomis and Payton will do the right thing, and I will support them.

The rest is pie in the sky!

 

Slidell Saint likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not saying blow the whole team up, agreed, we have a great young core. The QB is the issue if we keep Brees we have tough decisions to make, if we let him go we have tough decisions to make. Some easier with him here, some not so with him here. I trust them to do the right thing, I just don't think what they will do will get us there if we keep Brees at this point. 

louder and Bonckers like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, sfidc2 said:

I respect both you guys and your takes but I believe you couldn't be more wrong on this....

Listen if we win the super bowl next year with Brees I will be the first to eat Crow, but honestly, I don't see it. I believe the window is closing so fast it may have already closed. We are going to lose players to free agency this year and need to fill a lot of holes before the draft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Saint ATN said:

I knew as I typed it, it would not be popular and outright dismissed and I'm fine being against the grain here. I'm away on some downtime so I've had time to contemplate it all. I look forward to being wrong, and I hope I am, however, I've learned to listen to my inner voice and this voice tends to lend itself toward the realist. As the token rally ape, I have an idea when and where to throw that hope out there. I keep searching my heart of hearts and the realist comes to the forefront for me and as I look at the picture as it stands currently then I cannot see it happening. It doesn't mean I don't hope to be proven wrong, I look forward to it, but I've been around awhile and see what it takes to get teams to the big dance and I look at where we've been and what we have to do to get back there and between the money and talent, we're at a deficit currently.

Along with money and talent is time, it's not on our side, we've sadly wasted some of Brees's best years with no trophies but one to show for it. I'm beyond happy we have one, it keeps us all in a warm glow forever, but it can't keep us warm forever. We're 10 years + past our team. We're serviceable and we're consistent but we're consistently less serviceable year after year in the playoffs we get further and further away. We were just bounced in the wild card round, with a 13-3 record, the game could have gone either way, we didn't get it done. We're all here again, wondering, so I got to wondering, is this our fate now, just wondering? It's a lot greater than wondering for decades why we didn't make the playoffs or the division crown. We just did it 3 times in a row, epic, first in our division to do so in the new alignment. Usually awesome stuff, stuff we used to revel in and just be thankful for, but again, no hardware. Now it's just expected, that's a great mindset change for a fanbase and franchise and one we're all happy to be spoiled in. Our expectations have been raised across the board and so our belief in that we can get another one, it's a legitimate thought and expectation given what Brees and Payton have served us up for 14 years. It takes talent, health, and luck to get there and to win it, and our time and window are close to closed and part of me feel like it's officially closed. We saw a year again of bad slanted officiating against our team, game after game affecting outcomes. Stats even proved this slanted news and there are questions over the last play of the game that the Vikings benefited from. 

To recap, we have a league showing bias against us, still, using penalties to affect outcomes of our games, a over the age of 40 elite QB playing ageless statistical brilliance, Teddy's situation, loss of coaches, O Line tweaking, injured players to return to full health, very limited cap room, major and minor players across the board to retain, that along the 24th pick. I stack it all up and look at it and I just don't logically see it. Loomis and company have done a herculean effort to keep us consistently where we have been and I hope he can pull it off and do it. The realist in me just can't and doesn't see it, the dreamer in me will hope eternally it somehow happens and will dream of a second Lombardi being hoisted into the air by Drew. The realist in me keeps winning this internal argument and I look forward to reality changing this, I'm just not expecting it at this point. 

Oh, I don't expect it either....I never do....but, to me, again we lost that Vikes game because of a god awful (inexplicable really) performance by the offensive line and a couple of major coaching gaffes (IMO) by Payton....main one being the Peat start (over Easton)....I think Payton will learn from this loss. And I think we will be a more run oriented team next year....I also think injuries were a real factor for us defensively, which is why the Vikes had success running the ball, I really don't think Cook goes off with Rankins and Davenport in the lineup....I think we need to bolster the depth on both lines....If we don't do this and keep reverting to a pass happy offense next year then I will start to feel the way you do....

One thing to keep in mind is we have had some good to excellent drafts over the last few years, that is cause for optimism...IMO....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Boris said:

Let’s face it, 31 teams won’t win the Super Bowl next year, and the Saints are more likely than not to be one of them, regardless of who is the Saints QB.

But I’ll take another 13-3 season and our chances in the playoffs with Brees.  

Boris, I agree, but there are teams that will steamroll teams in the regular season and not be able to do it in the playoffs. I feel we are one of those teams with Brees at QB. The concern that I have that has been said here before is if we keep Brees which I know will happen we will let others walk and not fill certain hols in free agency because we won't have the funds. Also arm strength, yes you can win games without throwing a deep ball and check down all day long. But when you have to focus your team on the run game and defense your QB has to take little money so the rest can go into that. If you can't throw the deep ball safeties cheat up and stop everything underneath and the run game. It will be our undoing. I'm sorry but we have all seen it before. History repeats itself. When the Seahawks won their first super bowl they played a Denver team lead by Manning who could not throw it deep. Go back and watch the film. The only reason Manning won the last one was because of defense and having two great YAC WR's. They had Demarius Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders in their prime. We have one great WR that's it. We will not go far with Brees in the playoffs. I'm sorry I love him and hope he retires a Saint, I am just looking at it realistically. I really hope to be eating crow, but these are legitimate concerns. We all know this to be true, think about it. History is not on his side or Tom Brady's side. I am just being honest. You don't gain arm strength in your 40's. It doesn't happen even the guy with arguably the best arm in NFL history Favre played his last full season at 40. He didn't finish the season he played at 41 in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

Boris, I agree, but there are teams that will steamroll teams in the regular season and not be able to do it in the playoffs. I feel we are one of those teams with Brees at QB. The concern that I have that has been said here before is if we keep Brees which I know will happen we will let others walk and not fill certain hols in free agency because we won't have the funds. Also arm strength, yes you can win games without throwing a deep ball and check down all day long. But when you have to focus your team on the run game and defense your QB has to take little money so the rest can go into that. If you can't throw the deep ball safeties cheat up and stop everything underneath and the run game. It will be our undoing. I'm sorry but we have all seen it before. History repeats itself. When the Seahawks won their first super bowl they played a Denver team lead by Manning who could not throw it deep. Go back and watch the film. The only reason Manning won the last one was because of defense and having two great YAC WR's. They had Demarius Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders in their prime. We have one great WR that's it. We will not go far with Brees in the playoffs. I'm sorry I love him and hope he retires a Saint, I am just looking at it realistically. I really hope to be eating crow, but these are legitimate concerns. We all know this to be true, think about it. History is not on his side or Tom Brady's side. I am just being honest. You don't gain arm strength in your 40's. It doesn't happen even the guy with arguably the best arm in NFL history Favre played his last full season at 40. He didn't finish the season he played at 41 in. 

Like everyone else, I respect your and ATN's opinion.  Hell..you guys are certainly entitled to it...earned your bones so to speak.  So this isn't disrespect or calling you guys out.  It's just my opinion.

But in the Brees/Payton era have we really let others walk away because of cap restrictions?  I'm not sure but I can't think of anyone that has left us because we couldn't afford them (different from not wanting to resign them) and went on to make us regret it.  We found ourselves in cap hell in '12-'16 because of bountygate, poor drafts and misses on free agent signings, not because of Brees' contract.  Hell he was one of only a few truly earning his contract in those years.  And even then we took care of the guys on our team that we needed to take care of.  We draft much better now and we have been great at filling holes in free agency lately.  I don't see another year or two of Brees' contract negatively impacting Loomis' ability to manage the cap and keep our core happy.  Maybe I'm naive about that.

I also see us continuing to do well in the draft...the Patriot and Packer model if you will.  I can see us getting that second YAC receiver and bolstering our defense through the draft...even in the later rounds of the draft.

I don't know.  I just don't see one or two more years of Brees as anything but a positive.  He's the heart and soul of our team.  He's playing at a higher level than maybe 25 of the other 31 starting QBs in this league.  That can't be discounted.  I'm not sure Teddy B. or Taysom Hill can do that over the course of an entire season.  

Love y'all...and maybe I'm just too sentimental and my judgement is clouded.  But I just don't think it's wise to move on from a guy playing at an elite level just to speculate on both his replacement and the talent we might/could/should/hopefully be able to sign because we don't have his contract.

Give me Drew Brees any day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense taken in any way shape or form. I don't disagree with you or any of the dissenting opinions, I feel a bit of that too, kind of always will. I just had to listen to this inner voice and let it out. It's a worthy discussion and one I thought would be solidified as ancient by now. No word from Brees or the franchise at this point and I expected a tell by now. So just plodding along wondering still. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slidell Realistically if we move on from Brees I don't think we make the Super Bowl next season, or honestly even the next two. Truthfully you are right there is no reason we cannot kick the can down the road further for however long Brees wants to play, but honestly, the day he retires we will probably have to go into full rebuild because of the cap hit. It will be over 20 million in dead cap space. You are also right about being able to keep players we want and draft other players this year, but outside of 2006, we have not had as good as drafts as we have had since Ireland got here. The concern I have is the players we have selected the Lattimore, Kamar, MT, Ram are all top of their positions in the league in the next 2 years they will want to be paid that way. If we do not they will get it elsewhere that is what I was referencing regarding keeping guys. Realistically I feel we will let Kamara go in the next two years unless he gets back to his rookie form which is hard without a better number 2 back. We will need to keep Ram as either RT or LT, we will need Lattimore, and then we will need to decide on Marcus Williams, Anzalone, Von Bell (this offseason) while having already paid MT, and Probably let Peat leave this offseason. Realistically again 100% expect Brees back if he wants to play and I think he is about 90-95% coming back now. If he comes back for 2 more years this core group of players will probably look very different. I really think we shoudl start an offseason thread specifically to discuss who we may lose in free agency this year and next. I believe Warford is in the last year of his deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brees can play another 3-4 years on a high level? That wishful thinking. Age is catching up rapidly, I believe him, if he says he feels good enough to play another 3-4 years, but I think, if he can have 1 more seaon (full 16 games) on a high level, thta would be huge. 2 or more seasons is just science fiction.

Bonckers likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Payton Manning won a SB and couldn't throw the ball 20 yds downfield.  Brees can still win a SB, but his days of passing the ball 40+ yds down field are getting rare.  To win, IMO he needs a very strong Def and and a stronger Running Game.  (ie better Oline)

Are there enough FA's out there willing to play for a reduced rate, enough cap space, enough valuable draft picks, etc .... Can Payton find lightening in a bottle?

Sure he can ... the only question is will he.

In my book, Brees has earned the right to do whatever he wants and give him the right team and I think he wins.  I think he wins if he's the Balt or SF QB.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Uptownsaint said:

Payton Manning won a SB and couldn't throw the ball 20 yds downfield.  Brees can still win a SB, but his days of passing the ball 40+ yds down field are getting rare.  To win, IMO he needs a very strong Def and and a stronger Running Game.  (ie better Oline)

 

I see a lot of blame placed on the O-line. The Saints O-line was ranked among the leagues best. Who we missed imo was Mark Ingram. Ingram is a very good pass blocking rb. Murray isn't. The Falcons and Vikes stacked their line over the guards exploiting Kamara and Murrays weakness in that area. 

Bonckers, Uptownsaint, phil and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, faceman said:

I see a lot of blame placed on the O-line. The Saints O-line was ranked among the leagues best. Who we missed imo was Mark Ingram. Ingram is a very good pass blocking rb. Murray isn't. The Falcons and Vikes stacked their line over the guards exploiting Kamara and Murrays weakness in that area. 

You're right Faceman, I didn't mean to come across as blaming the O-line.  I agree we missed Ingram.  I just meant to say in general, for a QB with an avg arm, we'll need an above avg O-line, really strong running game and great Def. 

faceman and Bonckers like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ESPN article had this to say about Brees.  If this is indeed the case, then I would hope Brees comes back for one more year. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28600624/overheard-super-bowl-week-buzz-saints-qbs-cam-more

"...

Sometime in February is when we will get clarity on Brees, but after talking with several people about this, the two most plausible outcomes are this:

  • Retirement. Yes, the rumblings are fairly strong.

  • Signing a one-year deal with the Saints while helping friend Taysom Hill become the guy in 2021.

The second option is significant, because sources stress that Brees and Hill are indeed close but that Hill -- a versatile weapon and a restricted free agent -- might not be ready to handle the full responsibilities of NFL quarterbacking just yet.

One more crack at a championship while continuing to develop Hill would satisfy the locker room and an aging but talented defense that is poised for another run at San Francisco.

One expected outcome if Brees returns is that Hill would get a first-round tender -- a way for the Saints to dissuade teams from submitting an offer sheet -- and Teddy Bridgewater would become a potential starter elsewhere.

We're told that retirement is a definite option for Brees, that it isn't an empty threat to try to leverage the Saints into a contract. But we're also told, in no uncertain terms, that if Bress does play again, it would only be for New Orleans."

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2020 at 9:05 AM, faceman said:

I see a lot of blame placed on the O-line. The Saints O-line was ranked among the leagues best. Who we missed imo was Mark Ingram. Ingram is a very good pass blocking rb. Murray isn't. The Falcons and Vikes stacked their line over the guards exploiting Kamara and Murrays weakness in that area. 

Respectfully disagree my friend, I squarely blame the offensive line and the offensive coaching staff. Both G's got beat repeatedly....Murray may not be Ingram in pass protection but he is decent, if he weren't teams would have exploited that during the season as well...We should have run right at their DE's playing inside, that is on Payton and perhaps Brees for checking out of runs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0