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Is Brees done?

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The Vikes sat on all the deep routes KNOWING that Brees can't push the ball down the field.  Same thing happened to Manning at the end of his career.

I think that Brees is still great, but he fell back down to earth for this game.

That pick was a head scratcher, for sure.  Why throw into double coverage?  That was a 10 to 14 point swing.

Not a great game for Brees, and maybe I'm just frustrated and emotionally spent, but I'm seeing a blueprint for beating Brees.  Sit on the deep routes, and pressure Drew.

What is our future?  Is Brees a part of it?  I don't know.

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Unfortunately I’m still too emotionally charged to respond to this great topic with mental clarity, so I reserve the right to revisit my initial thoughts. But my thought is that Drew has nothing left to prove. He will go down as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game; which is why I’ll be at peace if he decides to retire.

In addition, I think Sean Payton has a better chance of getting back to the Super Bowl if he had a more mobile QB. I say this because just like you saw today, he gives up too quickly on the running game and gets extremely pass happy to the detriment of sensibility. Case in point: on the Brees fumble, we were down by 3 with excellent momentum after a passioned play by Taysom Hill. It’s first and 10 deep in Viking territory. Why are you throwing the ball? Better yet, imagine a more mobile QB in such a situation. He would have simply scooted to the right to buy more time or took off running to avoid the pressure.

This is in no way a knock on Brees; rather, it’s a knock on Payton’s stubborn love with the passing game. (Run...the frickin’...BALL!!) So since he will not change and since Drew is getting older and slower, a Taysom Hill and Lamar Jackson type of QB may suit him better now.

Again, my mental state is completely jacked up right now so I reserve the right to call BS on everything I just said when my blood pressure and anger subside.

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Yet again our stud offensive line got whipped in the playoffs. No run game. Always behind the sticks. No deep threat offensively and arguably the best defensive mind in football outside of Belichick in Zimmer gives us fits.. mental errors, turnovers, missed field goal, e.t.c. 

And Drew still had us with a chance to win when we didn't deserve it. 

I felt in the first half we missed Mark Ingram's energy. I know Alvin has all year. 

Edited by Brian Milici
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The INT was uncalled defensive pass interference.  At the very least it was defensive holding.

Having said that, Brees is living on borrowed time and it doesn't help if key players like Lattimore show up and just look like they are going through the motions because in reality they are hung over from living the "NFL lifestyle".

Payton needs to reign in his ship...top to bottom.

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Like X-man, this is too fresh to respond rationally for me.

I will say that I left the Superdome with more questions about Drew’s future than when I entered the Dome before the game.

We lost this game on many levels though, including two head-scratching mistakes by Drew Brees. But questionable play calling, stupid penalties that cost us important field position and seconds on the clock, a defense that continues to be susceptible to big plays, and a rare misfire by our kicker all had prominent roles in this loss.

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Really tough loss, as we didn’t play our best football.  I watched Brees’s press conference and he said on the play that he fumbled that there was a miscommunication and the receiver didn’t run the right route, so he tried to throw it away and his arm got hit.

The Vikings had the ball 20 mins to the Saints 10 in the first half.  The missed FG was a momentum swing..Lutz picked the wrong time to miss.  Loss of Coin toss in OT was critical. Penalty on fake punt was costly.  As usual Saints give up the big pass play in OT.  Lots of missed tackles... Lattimore’s play was head scratching...Jordan was neutralized, as well as Kamara and to a large extent Thomas.

As usual, refs called it close against us, and lenient on the Vikes, particularly on the final play. NBC studio crew said it was definitely Offensive pass interference and of course the NFL says to believe them and not your lying eyes.

Lots of credit to the Vikes. They played very well and seemed to execute better than the Saints, even with all the crowd noise. 
 

Cheers to Taysom Hill; his play gave us a chance.  We should have given him more of a chance, as he was on fire.
 

Another sad walk out of the Dome to end a season.😔

 

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12 minutes ago, herb said:

The Vikings did play a great game. Cousins is the Trent Dilfer of this era.

I cannot take away from thie victory.

Really, it’s as if the crowd noise made him (and last year Goff) better QBs.  Or maybe just our defense. 🤪.   He managed the game well.

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If Brees is done, what do you want to see done at QB going forward? Resign Teddy and have a competition with him and Taysum in training camp? Something else?

And yes, I know Drew may not be done. 

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15 hours ago, herb said:

The Vikings did play a great game. Cousins is the Trent Dilfer of this era.

I cannot take away from thie victory.

I  was worried before the game. I felt some fans were judging Cousins by his week 16 performance against GB. Cook and the backup Rb were inactive that game. There are not many Qb's who can overcome that and he struggled. The defense intercepted Rodgers 3 times and forced two fumbles. I believe if cook were healthy they would have beat the Pack by double digits. Cook is that good. The defense is great and well coached. I would not be shocked if they beat SF next week. 

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5 hours ago, fjw70 said:

If Brees is done, what do you want to see done at QB going forward? Resign Teddy and have a competition with him and Taysum in training camp? Something else?

And yes, I know Drew may not be done. 

I think the question is more whether the Saints are done with Brees, because I don’t think Brees is done playing.  
 

As a future QB, I like T Hill as opposed to Bridgewater.  I see the Saints going into next year with those two, Brees and Hill, along with a third QB on the roster.  I think Bridgewater signs elsewhere. 

Hill continues to play the Swiss Army knife role.

 

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I honestly feel like it is time for Brees and Brady to walk away. They are only going to tarnish their own reputations going forward. Honestly, they both can't throw it deep. Brees and Payton lost us the game. We ran is 17 times yet we were averaging 5.7 yards per carrying. I love Brees, and if he wants to play next year I know Payton and Loomis will take him back, but I think it is a mistake. Just my opinion. He fumbles the ball while trying to avoid the rush. when he should have thrown it away. He lost grip of the ball telling me his thumb was or is not 100%. Also the pas whether there was holding or not should not have been thrown it was double coverage. Time to realize he is not what he is anymore. The only way we win the super bowl with Brees is if we add a dynamic number 2 WR and develop one of if not the best defense in the NFL. I'm sorry not going to happen. 

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19 hours ago, Brian Milici said:

Yet again our stud offensive line got whipped in the playoffs. No run game. Always behind the sticks. No deep threat offensively and arguably the best defensive mind in football outside of Belichick in Zimmer gives us fits.. mental errors, turnovers, missed field goal, e.t.c. 

And Drew still had us with a chance to win when we didn't deserve it. 

I felt in the first half we missed Mark Ingram's energy. I know Alvin has all year. 

I think folks are dead wrong about Brees being done with the Saints. You are exactly correct about the reason for the loss (and they don't have the excuse of injuries this year), the offensive line flat out stunk....at a minimum they need to let Peat walk, he should have been benched after the 1st half, he was getting beat like a drum...Easton is the better player right now....I also blame SP for this loss, they really didn't look ready to play....I hope we see some better roster moves next year....

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51 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

I honestly feel like it is time for Brees and Brady to walk away. They are only going to tarnish their own reputations going forward. Honestly, they both can't throw it deep. Brees and Payton lost us the game. We ran is 17 times yet we were averaging 5.7 yards per carrying. I love Brees, and if he wants to play next year I know Payton and Loomis will take him back, but I think it is a mistake. Just my opinion. He fumbles the ball while trying to avoid the rush. when he should have thrown it away. He lost grip of the ball telling me his thumb was or is not 100%. Also the pas whether there was holding or not should not have been thrown it was double coverage. Time to realize he is not what he is anymore. The only way we win the super bowl with Brees is if we add a dynamic number 2 WR and develop one of if not the best defense in the NFL. I'm sorry not going to happen. 

I can’t believe how quickly fans will turn on Brees.  He had been playing lights out.

He had pressure all day yesterday. Our OL was like Swiss cheese yesterday. On the play he fumbled the receiver ran the wrong route, it was supposed to be a quick release and he got hit when trying to throw the ball away.  Smith dropped a long pass right in his hands.  The pass to Ginn was not a good play, but Ginn did nothing to help out his QB, as he didn’t make a play for the ball.

Certainly Brees is older, but I’m not going to throw him under the bus for that loss.

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55 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

 

55 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

I honestly feel like it is time for Brees and Brady to walk away. They are only going to tarnish their own reputations going forward. Honestly, they both can't throw it deep. Brees and Payton lost us the game. We ran is 17 times yet we were averaging 5.7 yards per carrying. I love Brees, and if he wants to play next year I know Payton and Loomis will take him back, but I think it is a mistake. Just my opinion. He fumbles the ball while trying to avoid the rush. when he should have thrown it away. He lost grip of the ball telling me his thumb was or is not 100%. Also the pas whether there was holding or not should not have been thrown it was double coverage. Time to realize he is not what he is anymore. The only way we win the super bowl with Brees is if we add a dynamic number 2 WR and develop one of if not the best defense in the NFL. I'm sorry not going to happen. 

Well, the only way we win another Super Bowl with any quarterback is if we add a dynamic number 2 WR and develop one of if not the best defense in the NFL.

It was the worst time for Brees to have a subpar game.  And it was...no doubt. But there were so many other things here.  Yes - the deep throw to Ginn that was picked off was a poor throw, but if Trequan Smith catches the ball thrown right in his hands on the previous play (similar route), we aren't even having the discussion about the pick.  I honestly questioned the play calling on that series...and I typically give Payton the benefit of the doubt when he goes for the jugular.  But we just had a great stand near the goal line to force them to settle for three.  We get the ball with about 2 and a half minutes to go in the half.  We didn't have to attack downfield...and certainly didn't have to go back to it after Smith's drop.  But we did.  We attacked deep instead of trying to sustain a drive mixing the run and short or intermediate passes.  And that was the turning point.  A poor throw by Brees?  Yes.  But the strategy at that point seemed strange to me.  We had a ton of time and our timeouts.  We could have and should have tried to sustain a drive.  The air went out of the Dome in my opinion after that series. 

I guess the question that will be answered is whether the team believes Brees is still the guy who went 29-30 with four TDs just a few weeks ago.  I believe he is and I believe that's good enough for us to win it all next year...but he's not going to do it alone that's for sure.

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I definitely agree on the second WR.

 I don’t think Peat was ready to come back, for whatever reason our OL didn’t perform. Brees was pressured all day.  

We can always second guess the play calling when it doesn’t work.

One thing for sure is the Saints made a mistake letting Ingram go.   

Edited by Boris

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1 hour ago, Boris said:

I definitely agree on the second WR.

 I don’t think Peat was ready to come back, for whatever reason our OL didn’t perform. Brees was pressured all day.  

We can always second guess the play calling when it doesn’t work.

One thing for sure is the Saints made a mistake letting Ingram go.   

Agreed on all accounts.

And yeah...I try not to second guess the play calling.  Payton has been on point with his play calling far more than he hasn't been. 

LOL.  I'm sure if he read my post, Payton would tell me "worry about your frickin meat!"

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4 hours ago, Slidell Saint said:

Agreed on all accounts.

And yeah...I try not to second guess the play calling.  Payton has been on point with his play calling far more than he hasn't been. 

LOL.  I'm sure if he read my post, Payton would tell me "worry about your frickin meat!"

😂😂.  The Saints just didn’t execute.  Saints call a fake punt,  it works and we have an illegal shift.  Brees fumbles on a play where the receiver runs the wrong route on a quick hitter. Smith drops a pass in his hands. Lutz misses a key FG.   Kamara isn’t the same player and has a key penalty costing us a  10 seconds run off.  Offensive line play is offensive. Lattimore leaves the game, hit by his own man, and then the Vikings burn us with a long ball.  Vikings push off on the DB and get a TD.. (that flag gets thrown if it’s the Saints are pushing off), if not the Vikings probably have to kick a FG.  We lose the coin toss in OT. 

There were so many things that went wrong. The defense played well enough, but I think the OL cost us this game. Give credit to the Vikings DL, and Cousins for making the plays when it counted.  It’s not like we had bad coverage on that final drive.

A lot of little things add up to a devastating loss for a 13-3 team.

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I don't know guys I am not turning on Brees, but honestly and I could be wrong I truly feel it is time to move on. Yes, he had a phenomenal game going 29 of 30 3weeks ago. But I can guarantee you he would not do that in the Super Bowl, He has to be able to throw the ball down the field, and his arm isn't there to me. At some point, it is going to fall off a cliff, and I think it is coming like now. I said the last offseason I was worried about arm strength, and I was hoping he could pull it off this year, but we are going to have to make some tough decisions and changes this offseason it may be time to retool. You can only kick the can so long. Peat more than likely is gone, and we have serval other free agents. Just my opinion that the time is now to make a change. I do NOT think we will move on if Brees wants to come back but I think it is time to do it. Just my opinion. 

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Ok, so whenever I hear the “move on from Brees” chant, which we hear whenever the Saints don’t make it to the Super Bowl, I always think about how life will be with another QB.

First, Brees suffers a serious hand injury, and fights his way back to rehab,  play at a high level and help his team win the division and a 13-3 record.

He leads the NFL in completion %, is second in  Rating, and third in QBR behind Jackson and Mahomes.  He has 27 TDs and 4 INTs, thats 5th in TDs after missing almost 6 games.

So he can’t get us to the promised land?  Well, he didn’t give up the Minneapolis Miracle and didn’t make the No Call, 2 games where he played well enough to win.

Then there is the intangible factor, he is the team leader and this team rallies around him. Brees has helped change Saints culture.  And the chemistry he has with Payton.  

Sure, Sunday wasn’t his best game, but it was a bad overall team performance against a Vikings team that probably played their  best game of the year.

The defects always brought up are that he can’t throw the long ball and can’t run.  I don’t see those things being determining factors in a team’s  success.  I’d like to see how many Super Bowl winners were successful because their QB could throw the ball 50 yards down the field.  And maybe they could, but how many TDS were scored by that method.  Most 50+ plays are due to RAC. 

Well, he’s played pretty well and hardly missed a game for 19 years, and we will see how long the new breed of running QBs can survive.

Sorry, I don’t see a washed up player needing to be sent off. 

I need to see one more record breaking  year and cherish it!

 

Edited by Boris

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First of all, I dont think the loss is on Brees. You all know, how sometimes it is hard to say, who deserves the gameball, since everybodsy contributed in a huge way, and as a result, we talk about a team-win. Well, this was an all out team-loss. What could go wrong, went wrong. Despite our terrible, terrible play, we were still 1 missed 43y FG away from victory. For me that means, that the team is intact and will be a force again, next season.

Comining to Brees now: In the pre-salary-cap era, it would be a no brainer, to resign Brees, if for nothing else, but saying THANK YOU to him, for what he has done for this Club. However, I think there is a tough decision to be made here: Resign Brees, who is cleraly in decline, and let Bridgewater go? Let Brees go and sign Bridgewater? Really hard to tell.

I would prefer a scenario, where Brees is  resigned for a reasonable salary, and acts like a Back up QB and QB Mentor/Coach at the same time. I think he would have tremendous value, as a developer of Bridgewater. I just dont believe, he would be willing to accept this construct.

I love Drew, and for me personally, he is in the top 3 QBs of all time. At the same time, we have the opportunity to sign an excellent young QB, who has proven, he can win in this league,. Not signing him would be a bad decision concerning the long term future of the club.

 

Edited by boricko

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I like Bridgewater, but I don’t think he is the answer as our future franchise QB.  He is definitely a step down from Brees right now. Teddy would have to get much faster in his decision making; and he also doesn’t have the strongest arm.  I didn’t see him throwing down the field.

The only positive I see in Teddy over Brees is he might come cheaper.  Brees is not going to  be a backup.

I’ll take another year of Brees with Hill as the backup.

I’d eventually take a shot with Hill and bring in a young QB to develop.

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11 minutes ago, Boris said:

I like Bridgewater, but I don’t think he is the answer as our future franchise QB.  He is definitely a step down from Brees right now. Teddy would have to get much faster in his decision making; and he also doesn’t have the strongest arm.  I didn’t see him throwing down the field.

The only positive I see in Teddy over Brees is he might come cheaper.  Brees is not going to  be a backup.

I’ll take another year of Brees with Hill as the backup.

I’d eventually take a shot with Hill and bring in a young QB to develop.

That is definitely a legitimate approach. I am not advocating one way or the other on Brees but I don’t think resigning him is a no brainer. 

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1 hour ago, Boris said:

Ok, so whenever I hear the “move on from Brees” chant, which we hear whenever the Saints don’t make it to the Super Bowl, I always think about how life will be with another QB.

First, Brees suffers a serious hand injury, and fights his way back to rehab,  play at a high level and help his team win the division and a 13-3 record.

He leads the NFL in completion %, is second in  Rating, and third in QBR behind Jackson and Mahomes.  He has 27 TDs and 4 INTs, thats 5th in TDs after missing almost 6 games.

So he can’t get us to the promised land?  Well, he didn’t give up the Minneapolis Miracle and didn’t make the No Call, 2 games where he played well enough to win.

Then there is the intangible factor, he is the team leader and this team rallies around him. Brees has helped change Saints culture.  And the chemistry he has with Payton.  

Sure, Sunday wasn’t his best game, but it was a bad overall team performance against a Vikings team that probably played their  best game of the year.

The defects always brought up are that he can’t throw the long ball and can’t run.  I don’t see those things being determining factors in a team’s  success.  I’d like to see how many Super Bowl winners were successful because their QB could throw the ball 50 yards down the field.  And maybe they could, but how many TDS were scored by that method.  Most 50+ plays are due to RAC. 

Well, he’s played pretty well and hardly missed a game for 19 years, and we will see how long the new breed of running QBs can survive.

Sorry, I don’t see a washed up player needing to be sent off. 

I need to see one more record breaking  year and cherish it!

 

 

53 minutes ago, Boris said:

I like Bridgewater, but I don’t think he is the answer as our future franchise QB.  He is definitely a step down from Brees right now. Teddy would have to get much faster in his decision making; and he also doesn’t have the strongest arm.  I didn’t see him throwing down the field.

The only positive I see in Teddy over Brees is he might come cheaper.  Brees is not going to  be a backup.

I’ll take another year of Brees with Hill as the backup.

I’d eventually take a shot with Hill and bring in a young QB to develop.

If I could like or agree with these more than 100% I would.

I feel exactly the same way.  

I hope Loomis can figure out a way to keep all three of our QBs.  But at the end of the day, Drew Brees is still clearly our best QB and is still playing at an elite level.  

Loyalty is huge in the Saints organization.  Other than his outright retirement, I cannot see any scenario where the Saint move on from Drew Brees.  

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2 hours ago, Slidell Saint said:

 

If I could like or agree with these more than 100% I would.

I feel exactly the same way.  

I hope Loomis can figure out a way to keep all three of our QBs.  But at the end of the day, Drew Brees is still clearly our best QB and is still playing at an elite level.  

Loyalty is huge in the Saints organization.  Other than his outright retirement, I cannot see any scenario where the Saint move on from Drew Brees.  

I agree.. there is an outside chance that if Bridgewater does not receive a great offer that he would resign with the Saints, particularly if he gets some assurances that the job would be his in the future, and they can pay him.

I think it’s Brees’s call, providing the money can be agreed.  You have to believe this has been discussed already.

 

 

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