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Dru

Urban Meyer could be out at Ohio State

29 posts in this topic

Timed with the sexual abuse allegations against the former wrestling team dosctor, I think tOSU will probably move quickly and definitively to assure the public that they do not tolerate abuse of any kind.

He is the face of the university and by extension the university lied on camera about what he knew and when he knew it.

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I'm not syaing the guy doesn't have a history of doing wrong, and than he doesn't eserve to be dismissed. I am just not sold it will happen. He is a big name, and I think they are going to hold onto him as long as they can. I think they will find a way to keep him by blaming his wife for not telling him or something else. 

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4 hours ago, Bonckers said:

I'm not syaing the guy doesn't have a history of doing wrong, and than he doesn't eserve to be dismissed. I am just not sold it will happen. He is a big name, and I think they are going to hold onto him as long as they can. I think they will find a way to keep him by blaming his wife for not telling him or something else. 

T-OSU is one of those schools bigger than their coach. If they choose to dismiss Meyer, they'll have qualified applicants lined up around the block. 

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12 hours ago, herb said:

If Meyer did report the incident in 2015,Smith is now the one in hot water. I'm not a Meyer fan,but he's a football coach,and not in     a position to launch an investigation. 

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I did find it odd that Meyer in his statement was not worried and said we agreed to do leave of absence to allow the investigation to go full course sooner. If he reported it he did all he could. I am no Meyer fan for what he has done in the past, but he may be in the clear here. 

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1 hour ago, faceman said:

If Meyer did report the incident in 2015,Smith is now the one in hot water. I'm not a Meyer fan,but he's a football coach,and not in     a position to launch an investigation. 

Tend to agree with your last comment here.  I don't care one way or the other about Urban Meyer, but heard a friend make a comment about this last week that has stuck with me.  He said "all this fuss is over the boss of a guy who might have beat his wife...not the guy...the boss of a guy.  And he might lose his job because of it."

Now, I get that this is high profile and high stakes college football and it's a media-interest story because of who Urban Meyer is, etc.  So it doesn't equate perfectly to my relatively small local company.  But I'm a co-owner of a business with 50 or so employees. If one of our management guys (coordinator level position in football?) was beating his wife, I probably wouldn't know about it until it bubbled over into an arrest.  Now, the question of what to do if you were told about it.  Tricky, isn't it?  Are you supposed to call the cops and fire him if someone says "hey, I think John Doe beats his wife"?

At some point there's certainly a level of responsibility if you are the person that the victim confided in or came to and you ignore it or cover it up when you have direct evidence or testimony that something happened.  But are we talking about that or second hand suspicion?  What is anyone's responsibility there?  And why would anyone other than the guy guilty of spousal abuse be at risk of losing their job?

Not trying to be insensitive.  What am I missing here?

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I think Slidell it boils down to more of him covering it up is what the outrage is about. Or hiding it from the administration. If itcomes to prove that is not the case. Than he needs to be reinstated with an apology. 

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4 hours ago, Slidell Saint said:

He said "all this fuss is over the boss of a guy who might have beat his wife...not the guy...the boss of a guy.  And he might lose his job because of it."

It's in Urban's contract that he is required to notify the administration.  That's why he would lose his job, not for anything to do with the alleged assault.

Quote

Now, I get that this is high profile and high stakes college football and it's a media-interest story because of who Urban Meyer is, etc.  So it doesn't equate perfectly to my relatively small local company.  But I'm a co-owner of a business with 50 or so employees. If one of our management guys (coordinator level position in football?) was beating his wife, I probably wouldn't know about it until it bubbled over into an arrest.  Now, the question of what to do if you were told about it.  Tricky, isn't it?  Are you supposed to call the cops and fire him if someone says "hey, I think John Doe beats his wife"?

There is a difference between suspicion and firm knowledge.  We don't know yet if Meyer had bonafide information or if it was merely second hand suspicion as you say.  It may have started off as suspicion and later became more certain.

Quote

At some point there's certainly a level of responsibility if you are the person that the victim confided in or came to and you ignore it or cover it up when you have direct evidence or testimony that something happened.  But are we talking about that or second hand suspicion?  What is anyone's responsibility there?  And why would anyone other than the guy guilty of spousal abuse be at risk of losing their job?

Not trying to be insensitive.  What am I missing here?

I think what you're missing is the difference in conduct requirements.  Most businesses relegate their conduct requirements to conduct while on the job.  Sexual harassment, bribery, those type of things.  These type of jobs come with the understanding that you're pretty much representing the University at all times because you've become a public figure.  With a major public presence like the Ohio State Football Program has, they are going to have far more stringent requirements in order to maintain their public reputation and to provide confidence to families that their kids are going to an institution that employs upstanding citizens.  There's a greater requirement of accountability there (and tons of jobs have that whether it's a teacher, a truck driver, etc. etc.)  Meyer, as the face of the program and the one who oversees all football personnel, is going to have some hefty requirements in his contract.  

Edited by Dru
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For the record Slidell, I agree with some of the sentiments you have described.  IMO Roger Goodell has hurt the NFL by using so large an arch to punish players and clubs that anything he deems 'conduct detrimental' is grounds for him to dole out a punishment of whatever severity he so chooses.  The argument goes that, having a job here "is a privilege" and we can penalize or fire at will regardless of the outcome of the Police investigation.  That doesn't sit well with me quite honestly.  A day of work for a day of pay is not a privilege in my mind, it's just getting paid to provide a service / create a product / etc.  And if someone is not charged or found not guilty, then how can the employer say they have a better investigating unit than the Police?  Nonetheless, their argument is that the Police are handling a criminal investigation and, if the crime warrants it, will punish people by taking away their freedom.  As an employer, we're not investigating for that level because we can't take away your freedom.  We are investigating to determine whether you should still have "the privilege" of working here.  It's a lower bar of punishment and therefore a lower bar for the evidence needed to consider you guilty.

From Zach Smith's attorney:

“Mind you the investigating officers with jurisdiction over such matters and a state law that mandates arrests for domestic violence never arrested or charged said assistant coach, but the head coach and now the athletic director are supposed to do more than the police? Since when?” Koffel said. 

Edited by Dru
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12 hours ago, faceman said:

WWL was on it again tonight. According to reports, Meyer knew about this for 6 years before reporting it in 2015

Clearly, if this turns out to be fact, then Meyer failed on many fronts and consequences should be strong.  Regardless of job responsibilities, if he had knowledge or evidence, and enough of it to come forward and report it to authorities, and he sat on it for six years with knowledge that the abuse was likely continuing, then that kinda rises to the level of accessory (though I'm no attorney and am not speaking from any specific knowledge of the law).

 

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Yes, but when did the 6 years prior happen? Did it happen while both were employed at Ohio State? If not, than how is it his repsonsibility to report it to OU. I mean honeslty he joined Ohio State in 2011. So he would have been coach at UF. They would have to prove he did not report it to the UF AD at the time. So again it is not adding up. If he reported the 2015 issue than he should keep his job. Jsut for the record I have said before I am not an OU fan or do I even like Urban Meyer. But a lot of mess that needs to be cleaned up on this. 

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5 hours ago, Bonckers said:

Yes, but when did the 6 years prior happen? Did it happen while both were employed at Ohio State? If not, than how is it his repsonsibility to report it to OU. I mean honeslty he joined Ohio State in 2011. So he would have been coach at UF. They would have to prove he did not report it to the UF AD at the time. So again it is not adding up. If he reported the 2015 issue than he should keep his job. Jsut for the record I have said before I am not an OU fan or do I even like Urban Meyer. But a lot of mess that needs to be cleaned up on this. 

It's all over the Feinbaum show now. Paul had a Ohio st. beat reporter as one of his guests today. The reporter said he interviewed the professors in the OSU legal dept. He said all of them didn't see how Meyer keeps his job. The integrity of the university has to come first. 

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1 hour ago, faceman said:

It's all over the Feinbaum show now. Paul had a Ohio st. beat reporter as one of his guests today. The reporter said he interviewed the professors in the OSU legal dept. He said all of them didn't see how Meyer keeps his job. The integrity of the university has to come first. 

They don't HAVE to fire him with cause.  Even if they feel like there isn't enough to make it stick legally, they can still fire him if they feel anything underhanded or ingenuous occurred.

It may have already been said in this thread, but Meyer has greater than a 30 year relationship with Zach Smith's family.  Earle Smith, Zach's grandfather, gave Urban his first college coaching job and Urban has been publicly vocal about how much Earle meant to his career and as his greatest mentor.  If Urban glossed over a few things or tried not to know some things and hope that this would blow over for the sake of the Smith family, Ohio State could get rid of him for that alone.

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57 minutes ago, herb said:

That would be Earle Bruce, n'est-ce pas?

no, but funny you should mention Bruce, The same reporter said Bruce was the last Buckeye coach no one ever questioned his off the field integrity. 

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1 hour ago, herb said:

That would be Earle Bruce, n'est-ce pas?

Correct.  Sorry, I typed Earle Smith as I was running out the door for a mtg. 

Zach Smith is the grandson of Earle Bruce.  Thanks!

Edited by Dru

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I'm sorry that is a slap on the wrist, and again the NCAA will do nothing about it either. He should have been fired, but again the schools are always more about the dollar than any human being. 

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The sad part is ATN nobody has even questioned it. You don't see it on the sports news anywhere or even national news which it should be. He covered up domestic abuse. I understand it isn't as ratings jumping as some of the other stuff but this should be major news. A person who is supposed to be in a high authority position with high moral standards covered up an employee and friend abusing his wife. 

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3 hours ago, Bonckers said:

The sad part is ATN nobody has even questioned it. You don't see it on the sports news anywhere or even national news which it should be. He covered up domestic abuse. I understand it isn't as ratings jumping as some of the other stuff but this should be major news. A person who is supposed to be in a high authority position with high moral standards covered up an employee and friend abusing his wife. 

Smith was a POS & Urban was well aware of it. OSU dropped the ball here. 

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Meyer is a POS too.

News of Herman's accompanying Smith to a strip club comes on the same day Ohio State released to the public some of the documents that its investigative team used while looking into the allegations made against head football coach Urban Meyer and others, providing detail into how involved parties first reacted at various stages.

The series of text messages, emails and handwritten notes reveal Meyer's reaction to the police investigating a domestic assault issue with Smith in October 2015. The documents also show how Meyer and others responded in the lead-up to Meyer's public comments last month that "misrepresented" what he knew about those 2015 allegations.

Meyer texted his agent, Trace Armstrong, hours before speaking to reporters on July 24 in Chicago at Big Ten media days and said Smith had been fired for "cumulative stuff. I will not tell the media."

Along with past allegations of domestic assault, investigators found a long list of transgressions in Smith's past, including: an affair with a member of the football staff; taking lewd photos on a team trip to the White House; and a noted drop in job performance during the past several years.

Investigators also received an anonymous tip that Smith entered a drug treatment facility in the summer of 2015, but the former assistant coach did not take it seriously and did not complete the required 10-day initial assessment before leaving. The anonymous tip arrived on the final afternoon of a two-week investigation. It's not clear whether investigators already had learned about the drug treatment trip, but their final assessment included a belief that Meyer did not "deliberately lie" when questioned about Smith's past.

Armstrong replied to Meyer's text with the following: "For sure. It was the totality of his choices ... but you had to do it. Only a matter of time before he did something that did substantial harm to you or the program."

He warned Meyer to be careful while answering questions from reporters, and Meyer responded: "Easy. Monitor for me. Amazingly all the stuff vs. Zach will get legally dropped and he was fired. Tuff perception world we live in."

Meyer told reporters on the afternoon of July 24 that he was not aware of any incident between Smith and his ex-wife that occurred in 2015. When questioned after police reports surfaced later that evening, Meyer told ESPN he was not aware of any other domestic-related issues that occurred during Smith's time as a coach at Ohio State.

Ohio State first learned about allegations made by Smith's ex-wife, Courtney, in 2015, when a police chief from their hometown of Powell, Ohio, contacted the university police chief, according to notes taken by an associate athletic director at Ohio State. Powell Police Chief Gary Vest told ESPN earlier this month he did not know how Ohio State learned about the allegations and said it would be against his department's protocol to inform the university. Those notes also indicate that a detective from Powell called an Ohio State football staff member the following day to tell him there was an ongoing investigation.

The same series of handwritten notes poses the question: "What would we do if this was a player?" It indicates that Smith would be restricted from recruiting and talking to reporters and be put on leave if charges were filed. No charges were filed in the case.

The notes from Oct. 30, 2015, also indicate that a reporter attempted to contact Courtney Smith and obtain public records regarding the situation. No story was published about the incident until last month.

Armstrong texted Meyer on Aug. 2 this year, the day after he was put on administrative leave, to let him know that two women were coming to his home and would "need four hours with your phone."

The day before, according to the investigative report, Meyer had a conversation with staff member Brian Voltolini about how to set his cellphone so that text messages that were more than a year old would not be retained on the phone. A week before that, Voltolini was notified by the university's Freedom of Information officer that the student newspaper had requested a record of Meyer's text messages from the fall of 2015. The investigators said they found no text messages on Meyer's phone that were more than a year old but could not determine when he adjusted his settings to make those disappear.

Meyer and Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith were suspended over their handling of Zach Smith.

Meyer will resume some coaching duties, including running practices, on Monday, but he can't coach during the Buckeyes' first three games.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24506235/tom-herman-texas-longhorns-head-coach-was-other-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-strip-club-trip

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