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Bonckers

N/S Julio Jones holding out of camp

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All the more likely it will be a crap show in turdlanta this year. Man I can't wait to watch that effect their play. I know we have briefly discussed the deal in other threads, but he signed the deal for that length and at the time was the highest paid WR. He still has three years left. I am not sure I can side with him. I am also not one to say you signed the deal live it as I understand players have short careers, but he signed a 6 year deal. No one made him sign it. I think players would be smart to do 2-3 year deals personally. JMO. I am alwasys surprised to see players sign such long contracts especially when the team is banking on the cap rising. In Drew's instance in 06 he wanted the security and so did the team sicne they were taking a risk. That one made sense. But since than he ahs siged shorter deals and that made sense to me. Shoot outsode of Gallette, Armstead, and Cam we have doen normally 3-4 year deals for most of our players. We are gettinga  bargain on Cam's deal now. He signed a 5 year $55million dollar deal. $11 mill a year is cheap now. I'm sure the team now wishes they had done a 6 year deal. But it does backfire sometimes. BTW Cam is signed through 2020 with a base salray of 8.8 mill that year, and 1 mill bonus. Chump change for the return we are getting Shoot Von Miller gets $17.5mill base salray same year with a 3.4 mill bonus. I know Miller may be better but not $9 million a year better. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/24/julio-jones-skipping-training-camp-in-contract-dispute/

 

Cam's deal

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/cameron-jordan-7739/

Von Miller deal 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/von-miller-7717/

Edited by Bonckers
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I think Julio is going to have a struggle on his hands.  For the organization to renegotiate with a full 3 seasons remaining on the deal would set a bad precedent.  Especially considering his contract was the richest for a WR when he signed it.  As you alluded to, the cap is going to go up.  If you want to try and keep pace with it as a premier player, then you basically have to keep doing extensions for 2 or 3 years at a time.  If you have one year left and get a 2 year extension, that is still pretty good security all things considered.  But many premier players also like the idea of reaching that milestone of 'largest contract ever awarded to position X'.  

The hard part for players and organizations if that things get sticky after a player turns 30.  Forget about QBs, they are in a different subset.  As a player, if you're 29 or 30 years old, you may not feel old in anyway.  So you believe you are still worth the top dollar you believe your play has demonstrated.  Problem is that any long term contract for a player 29 years and older often back-fires on the team.  Injuries are far more prevalent, and sometimes your play just falls off a cliff.  Teams are willing to give contracts to players 30 years old, but they want those contracts to be more modest, not setting a new bar for the position.  More often than not players are going to hit it big for their second contract, not the third.  By the time the third contract comes around the player is 30, still wanting to get paid like he's 26.  The organization realizes the overall team is getting older each time they make one of those signings and they are also losing out on utilizing the cheaper, younger players who are your next wave of talent.  

The Saints could have gotten bit by this and certainly we created our own cap hell in other ways.  But in reality, we didn't shell out major contracts to guys like Will Smith, Jon Vilma, Colston, etc. after they turned 30.  Their play and injuries had already caught up to them so there wasn't this hold out scenario.  Nonetheless, we still get pretty old as a team and last year was the perfect example of us needing that youth movement to really challenge for another Super Bowl.

You look at the Seahawks right now and some of their players are leaving due to injury, but guys like Michael Bennett, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas are in that unenviable spot.  They had an out in the contract with Bennett and let him go at 32 years old despite the fact he was one of the most dominant DLine players in the league as recently as 2015 when he was 30 years old.  The organization is wary of giving out that third contract for big dollars.  Sherman is 30 and coming off an Achilles tear, so they pretty much let him walk without putting up a fight and he had to take an incentivized deal with the 9ers.  Earl is still clamoring for a new deal or a trade, but he's been banged up the past couple seasons as well and is asking to set the bar for highest paid safety.  He's 29 years old.  

On a side note, Todd Gurley just signed for largest contract ever given to a RB.  If Alvin Kamara keeps up his incredible pace, we'll be looking at extending his contract after the 2019 season.  Unless he decides to hold out in 2019 for his extension right then.  Considering how little he's making on a 3rd round pick contract, I could see why he would do it.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-orleans-saints/alvin-kamara-21809/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24183860/los-angeles-rams-todd-gurley-agree-record-deal-worth-45-million-guaranteed-money

 

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All very good points Dru. I didn't even think of the 30 year old mark but you are right most players are expecting that huge thrid contract that used to pay out, but I think because the way the league has changed and how players train after 30 there is a steep fall off compared to the 80's and 90's. I hope when the time comes we can keep players like Cam Jordan and Ingram but as team we will have to be smart about their third contract due to age. Shoot even Jordan has had surgeries the last two off seasons. He played almsot every snap those two seasons as well. One player to look at and see the iea of worth is Dez Bryant. Dude was paid by Dallas and wants to be paid again, but few are biting as his prodcutions has slipped the last 2 years even though he is only 29 now. 

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Both players will get a third contract, but for how much and with what team I'm not sure.

Cam Jordan has played an ungodly amount of snaps for his position.  That can't be overlooked when he will be 31 at the end of his current contract.  The good news is that DLinemen are some of the most rotated players in the game (with a few exceptions like Jordan).  Cam might be a super-conditioned ironman at this age, but there's no way to expect him to maintain that at 31, 32, 33, etc.  I still think he can get a fat contract, but it's not going to set the bar.

Ingram is in a unique situation for a RB.  First, he never had to be the bell cow in his NFL career and had some seasons with injuries that did not add much wear to the tires.  Second, he seems to be one of those rare RBs that was fine with sharing the load and didn't feel like he had to get 20+ touches to 'get going'.  We've had a lot of unselfish RBs on our squad ever since Deuce was sharing touches with Reggie.  Because Ingram was never a bell cow, 1500 yard runner, he doesn't have that ego in his head where he thinks he's going to get Le'Veon Bell money, so I suspect his contract demands will be in-line with what he has proven.  He's about a 1,000 yard runner who can catch out of the backfield and can play on all three downs.  He left Alabama early and will only have 8 seasons with the Saints when his contract is up.  I think it's a safe bet he can put up another 3 or 4 solid seasons after 2018.

Honestly, I can see the Saints keeping both players and having them finish out their careers with the Black and Gold.  If I could have added two seasons to Mark's current contract for a reasonable price, hell, I would have already done it.  I'm guessing Mark will want more than just two years after the 2018 season.

We also will have to wait and see what Brees' retirement does to our cap situation.  By constantly adding years to his contract, we've definitely kicked the can down the road and one day that's going to hit us all at once, or possibly broken up over two years.  If we have a new rookie QB on a rookie contract, we'll be able to absorb that easily.  But who knows what life after Brees is going to be like, I'll just enjoy this extra run we're going to make while we still have him.

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Well I think we all saw this coming a mile away except Atlanta. I know he docent want wait to rework his contract cause he'll be north of 30 and he knows he won't get the big pay day he wants. Really don't know what will happen with this situation but hey,it's their problem not ours

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louis I am all for players holding out when they are underpaid, and getting every penny while they can. But in this case he made a mistake by signing such a long contract, and now he wants the team to fix his mistake. I am all for guys who are underpaid and under valued like Aaron Donald and Leveon Bell holding out. Even Kirk Cousins if he would have in Washington. But for player to sign a 6 year deal than 3 years in demand more moeny when he was the hgihest paid when he signed it that just seems like a foolish man to me or agent. Maybe both. 

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31 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

louis I am all for players holding out when they are underpaid, and getting every penny while they can. But in this case he made a mistake by signing such a long contract, and now he wants the team to fix his mistake. I am all for guys who are underpaid and under valued like Aaron Donald and Leveon Bell holding out. Even Kirk Cousins if he would have in Washington. But for player to sign a 6 year deal than 3 years in demand more moeny when he was the hgihest paid when he signed it that just seems like a foolish man to me or agent. Maybe both. 

Well, I was being snarkily supportive in that the more pain the Falcons can have, the better. Whether or not it's the right or wrong thing to do, eh... Way more important to me that the Falcons have the distractions, and the unavailability of Julio.

 

 

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The Flacons blinked, but not to hard it was more of a wink. They moved two million of next years salary into a signing bonus last night. Still not a win for Julio, but he ahd to realize he was in a losing battle. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/26/report-falcons-moved-2-million-of-2019-money-up-for-julio-jones/

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Yeah and he's lucky he got that cause Atlanta  could've said no and wait till the last year of his contract to do anything. He didn't have all the leverage but he had just enough cause outside of him who do they have.

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The thing I am curious about is why did he take that if he was holding out? All that did was move money around, not actually make more. I don't know Julio or his inner circle. but is he broke, and he "needed" the cash now. Honestly I doubt it, but first thing that came to mind. 

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1 hour ago, Bonckers said:

The thing I am curious about is why did he take that if he was holding out? All that did was move money around, not actually make more. I don't know Julio or his inner circle. but is he broke, and he "needed" the cash now. Honestly I doubt it, but first thing that came to mind. 

Atlanta had already said they would re-look at the contract new offseason.  So this gets them from here to then with Julio in the fold.

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13 minutes ago, Dru said:

Atlanta had already said they would re-look at the contract new offseason.  So this gets them from here to then with Julio in the fold.

I read another article that said He still has 35 mil remaining,but none of the last three years are guaranteed. If he gets hurt,Atlanta can cut bait and only be on the hook for cap implications. Seems like Julio signed a bad contract. He needs to turn some of that 35 mil into an upfront signing bonus. I believe they'll get that worked out. 

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36 minutes ago, faceman said:

The Aaron Donald situation is baffling to me. They extend Gurley before he reaches his RFA year,and didn't for Donald. I'd be fuming too. He's the best defensive player in the NFL right now Imo. 

Yeah, to pay for Brandin Cooks, who just traded for and hasn't played a regular season snap for your team.  To extend Gurley when you didn't have any priority to do so.  To give $14 millon on a year deal to Ndamukong Suh.  All before you handle the Defensive Player of the Year who is just hitting his prime and is pissed that you keep jerking him around?

I mean, yeah, I'd read into that if I were Donald.  Their actions are speaking so loud I wouldn't hear any of their words.

Edited by Dru
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Either they're afraid he'll pull a complete Haynesworth or...I don't even know. He's had better performances for the team than both gurley and cooks (who's never even played for them)combined, giving money to literally everyone else but him makes them really look bad. Maybe they will want to do a cousins-style play, tagging him year by year for the first two years of free agency. By the time he could have a shot at true free agency he'll be 30 and considering how much he's been used, he'll probably not demand anywhere near as much money as he could in a year. While I can't truthfully say I feel for him considering that he's already earned more than I will in my lifetime, this still sucks for him. He can hold out but he'd lose quite a bit of money in the process too, it really seems like the rams have shafted him egregiously well.

Edited by Tuma
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10 hours ago, Dru said:

Yeah, to pay for Brandin Cooks, who just traded for and hasn't played a regular season snap for your team.  To extend Gurley when you didn't have any priority to do so.  To give $14 millon on a year deal to Ndamukong Suh.  All before you handle the Defensive Player of the Year who is just hitting his prime and is pissed that you keep jerking him around?

I mean, yeah, I'd read into that if I were Donald.  Their actions are speaking so loud I wouldn't hear any of their words.

I wonder if the Rams plan on using the Franchise tag. They really hold all the cards. If he sits,he's not credited with a year played. If he plays they can tag him for 13.9 Mil next year. That  would be far less than the 20+ he'd be asking for

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1 hour ago, Tuma said:

Either they're afraid he'll pull a complete Haynesworth or...I don't even know. He's had better performances for the team than both gurley and cooks (who's never even played for them)combined, giving money to literally everyone else but him makes them really look bad. Maybe they will want to do a cousins-style play, tagging him year by year for the first two years of free agency. By the time he could have a shot at true free agency he'll be 30 and considering how much he's been used, he'll probably not demand anywhere near as much money as he could in a year. While I can't truthfully say I feel for him considering that he's already earned more than I will in my lifetime, this still sucks for him. He can hold out but he'd lose quite a bit of money in the process too, it really seems like the rams have shafted him egregiously well.

Tuma and Face I think you guys hit the nail on the head. It is far cheaper to Donald later. They can franchise him next year and the following year and still be paying him less than he is asking for. I will say this though I think it makes a lot fo sense to sign Gurley now, and the reason I say that is he will cost a crap ton more next off season compared to this one. Once David Johsnon and Leveon Bell sign they are going to reset the contract market for RB's. That is the concern I have with Ingram. Ingram will never be either of those guys, or get as much as they do, but I truly feel those two are going to sign massive deals and change the RB market drastically, even for mid tier guys. shoot I remember we paid more for CJ Spiller than when we signed Ingrma I would not be in such a hurry to resign if I am him. 

When it comes to Cooks all that tells me is that the Rams are not signing Donald to what he wants this offseason. The team can spin it to the agent, or the agent can spin it to Donald about trying to save money on a future deal with the Gurley contract. Cooks on the other hand should not have been signed until after Donald unless they were planning on franchising him next year. I truly think he willl not get a long term deal from the Rams for at least two more off seasons. 

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Failclowns just signed Jake Matthews to a 5 year deal for roughly 75 million. I love this as he is a goo tackle, but not great. Here is to many more years of him getting beat by our DE's .Jordan made him his b#*&ch when he lined up against him on quit a few plays. I am hoping Davenport can do the same. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/falcons-finalizing-extension-with-jake-matthews/

Edited by Bonckers

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Take this for what you will....

 

Eric Geller @ericsgeller
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Just got confirmation. SOURCES: L.A. @RamsNFL offering @AaronDonald97 4 yr. $21M per making AD highest paid D player in NFL history. AD’s agent “insulted” by offer. He’s looking for north of $25M per for AD which is QB $$. Not going to happen, nor should it. #MobSquad #SignAD99

 

 

Vincent Bonsignore @DailyNewsVinny
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The #Rams are showing a willingness to pay their young stars top money. And they’re ready to make Aaron Donald the highest paid defensive player of all time. Yet he still hasn’t agreed to a deal. At some point that’s more on Donald than the Rams

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The only thing I will add is this if you are being offered more than what JJ Watt is paid it is not an insult even if you want more than him. Stating that, no one knows the true nuimbers other than the Rams, AD, and his agent. So many things are leaked to make the other person look bad in negotiations. I hope it's not true, beacuse if it is AD needs a new agent. 

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