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Kinsey

Acquiring Brees' heir: who and how?

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I'm interested to know what you guys think the Saints will do to acquire a genuine successor to Brees within (I hope) the next 2 years. We are victims of our own success, since by consensus the Saints are now genuine contenders for the Super Bowl and have built a great roster to surround Brees. So, unless something weird happens, no high picks anytime soon.

A few questions from me. Where do we get the guy from? Trade up this year, trade up next year? What's the ammunition? Luck out on an obscure mid rounder? Free agency - do we pick up the Cousins/Garappolo equivalent when Brees hangs it up? Grab a guy from the CFL ;) ??

I don't have the answers to any of this, and I guess nor does the front office. My dream is an under-appreciated Brees V2. High accuracy, high IQ, leader, maybe small school. And we only give up a 6th to get him!

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52 minutes ago, Kinsey said:

I don't have the answers to any of this, and I guess nor does the front office.

You can bet against our FO having no answers for your questions.  Mickey Loomis, SP and Co. have a wealth of information about where, what, whom, and more about their for the upcoming draft, FA, succession strategy at QB and offseason in general.  Even with the best of info, great intentions and knowledge, replacing a HOFer at the QB position is an incredibly difficult proposition.

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We've had this discussion going in the Draftzone for a bit and many of us feel we have to do something QB-wise this draft. Brees has a running game to manage the game better but we saw his power deep start to wain. Mother nature is going to win this battle sooner than later hence we need to prepare for the future now that we have a young nucleus on both sides of the ball.

We have an opportunity to stay put or trade up and get the QB. The consensus seems to have recently focused on Mayfield from OU. I'm familiar with him due to my WVU Alum status and since he's very much been in my division. He's cocky and knows the game. He could start for a team but would benefit from a year or two of seasoning. He has only played in the shotgun position almost exclusively at OU. He's a hair taller than Brees, he stated in the media that he wants to learn from Drew and Drew and Payton really likes the fire in him and speak highly of him. Brees is so competitive he broke the last rookie mentally quickly, so we need someone cocky who can not only handle what Brees dishes out but excels thru it. He has shown flashes of these traits, whether they transform to the team or not, well, that's just a pipe dream away at this moment.

Make no mistake Mayfield's a consensus #3 QB in this draft currently pre-combine so we have a dance partner to move multiple picks to get him or any of the top tier talented QB's. We could sit back and avoid the early pick BPA and go later tier, but a few of us feel this is THE guy in this draft for this team. QB's are a risk no matter what and he's one but one some of us feel is well worth taking given our window view and Brees's age first and foremost. 

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Don't need a high pick to draft a good QB.  Tom Brady wasn't taken until the 6th round.  Carr wasn't taken until the 3rd round.  Proof you don't need a high draft pick.  As much as I love Payton and the way he drafts offense(he's good at it), I'm not so sure he drafts OBs well.  He good at developing them and coaching them, I'm just not so sure he's good at drafting them.  He did draft Grayson, after all.  When the time comes I hope he ask for help from someone who knows how to draft QBs.  He shown a willingness to adapt in the past.  I hope he doesn't let his ego get the better of him.

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1 hour ago, nonyt said:

Don't need a high pick to draft a good QB.  Tom Brady wasn't taken until the 6th round.  Carr wasn't taken until the 3rd round.  Proof you don't need a high draft pick.  As much as I love Payton and the way he drafts offense(he's good at it), I'm not so sure he drafts OBs well.  He good at developing them and coaching them, I'm just not so sure he's good at drafting them.  He did draft Grayson, after all.  When the time comes I hope he ask for help from someone who knows how to draft QBs.  He shown a willingness to adapt in the past.  I hope he doesn't let his ego get the better of him.

A good QB can be found in many places, but there is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start.  One doesn't choose an anomaly to prove their theorem.

How about here.  QB is the most difficult position to predict.  To say anyone is bad at drafting QBs, well you may as well include the entire league.  To pick out a few anomalies, such as Brady or Russell Wilson would be betting on some long, long odds.  Derek Carr was a 2nd rounder, not 3rd, and 36 overall, just 4 spots away from being a 1st.  Brees was chosen as the first pick in the 2nd round.  Yet, by in large, the vast majority of franchise QBs have been 1st round selections.  That's just history.

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What do we all think about Taysom Hill? We know he's an incredible athlete but after looking at his college stats, they didn't really scream out at me and the 2 yrs he threw for over 2k yds, he had 19 TD's to 14 INT's, and 12 TD's to 11 INT's. Plus it seems he had several injuries in college too...

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Nolapse I agree, he seems more athlete than QB, but that could have been BYU's system. Sitting and learning from Brees and Chase Daniel may help him grow. Who knows maybe Payton already believe Hill is the answer. IDK, but it will be a fun off season full of great conversations about QB's. We haven't talked about QB's as much since the 06 off sason when we brought in Brees. 

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2 hours ago, Bonckers said:

We haven't talked about QB's as much since the 06 off sason when we brought in Brees. 

And let's not forget how wrong a lot of us were, myself included, that time around. I was certain that Matt Leinart was the future of our franchise. Thank everything anyone considers holy that I wasn't running things!

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1 hour ago, louisb said:

And let's not forget how wrong a lot of us were, myself included, that time around. I was certain that Matt Leinart was the future of our franchise. Thank everything anyone considers holy that I wasn't running things!

none of us saw Brees second coming arriving. Sure, we hoped for it, dreamed of it somewhat, but not in our wildest dreams did we ever think that we'd have the luxury of the years we've witnessed and the quality we've been gifted. 12 years later we're talking about Brees's replacement for reals. You would have had a hard time believing that of a rookie much less of a seasoned veteran that Brees in fact was. We can all thank San Diego for putting that chip boulder on Brees's shoulder that has made him so motivated he's eaten records like a starvin' cajun at the first crawfish boil of the season. 

I'm glad you're not running things either, or me for that matter. I was skeptical that Brees's arm would hold up for the entire '06 season. I was so wrong for so long that I self-published a 12 book series on crow recipes to enjoy for every occasion. 

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7 hours ago, Dru said:

A good QB can be found in many places, but there is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start.  One doesn't choose an anomaly to prove their theorem.

How about here.  QB is the most difficult position to predict.  To say anyone is bad at drafting QBs, well you may as well include the entire league.  To pick out a few anomalies, such as Brady or Russell Wilson would be betting on some long, long odds.  Derek Carr was a 2nd rounder, not 3rd, and 36 overall, just 4 spots away from being a 1st.  Brees was chosen as the first pick in the 2nd round.  Yet, by in large, the vast majority of franchise QBs have been 1st round selections.  That's just history.

Thank you for making my point.  I forgot about Wilson and Brees.  Didn't realize Carr was drafted in the 2nd, I thought he was drafted in the 3rd and I don't care if he was picked 1st in the 2nd, like Brees, he wasn't picked in the 1st.  That was my point. You can find a good QB in any round as long as you know what you are looking for.  It doesn't always have to be the 1st round.  Kurt Warner and Tony Romo were undrafted and I consider them good QBs.  Yeah most of the time the good ones are found in the 1st round but sometimes you get some duds, ie Ponder and Gabbert.  Was Brady and Wilson luck?  Possibly but it could also be that someone knew what they were doing. I wish the Saints could get a QB high in the 1st round but they don't have that luxury in this draft unless they are willing to give up just about every pick they have and I hope they don't do that.  They have other needs.  Bridgewater was selected, I believe at 32.  I know the jury is still out on him but he might turn out to be a good QB.  As far as saying someone is bad at picking QBs, well you might have a point.  You're right , "Qb is the most difficult position to predict."

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Your chances are greatly improved for a higher quality player the earlier in the draft you select them.  Every position has had superstars found in the late rounds and as udfa, but they are the exceptions not the rule.  Players make it to the later rounds because every team has questions about them including the team that eventually acquires them.  Those players that succeed proved those concerns to be false, but way more often than not, those concerns are proven to be legit.  

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13 hours ago, Bonckers said:

Nolapse I agree, he seems more athlete than QB, but that could have been BYU's system. Sitting and learning from Brees and Chase Daniel may help him grow. Who knows maybe Payton already believe Hill is the answer. IDK, but it will be a fun off season full of great conversations about QB's. We haven't talked about QB's as much since the 06 off sason when we brought in Brees. 

Here are his highlights from BYU, I watched first 5 min and this is what I gathered:

1. He's a hell of an athlete.

2. He's fast/tough as hell.

3. He took a TON of hits in college.

4. Passes didn't seem to have much touch on 'em when he did throw.

 

Edited by nolaspe
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As long as the front office realizes that they can't find another Brees he's a one of kind. We may find a QB with some of the same traits like Green Bay did in Aaron Rodgers. If it's through the draft or free agency that we find our new QB we don't really know. I think it will be through the draft. Will it be this year we draft a QB no one knows but I think we draft one this year but I hope we don't trade the farm to move up to get him. As to which one,I haven't researched the QB class yet but I don't care for Mayfield he reminds me to much of Manzel. As long as we draft one that has some of Brees traits and our drafts under Ireland has been exceptional,I believe we will find the right one that is coachable and able to pickup the offense and when called upon execute and lead the team. It won't be easy replacing a future HOF QB but it has been done before and we will eventually have to,we just need to start the grooming process now.

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My take on Taysom Hill is that he is a 'tweener' along the lines of a former Saint by the name of Guido Merkins. He's a utility player that is quite capable of playing numerous positions which is handy to have around. There's no questioning his grit or his athletic ability, if we can interchange linemen, why not have someone that can be a backup QB, TE, WR, or ST ace, it's a win-win for everyone.

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Nolapse the big trait that is hard to tell in just highlight reels is accuracy. I believe in our offense it is the most important trait. He has a completion percentage from college that hovered around 60%. Not watching any of his college games not sure if that is due to system, bad throws, drops, etc. 60% at 58.1% is not bad in the NFL, but in college your completion percentage should be higher due to bigger windows. JMO. Now Brees was only at 61.1% for a career, but one more completion per game could decide a game. May not be much, but I am always more worried about accuracy than arm strength which this kid obviously has. I could see us looking to use him as an H back or a WR this year. He is talented enough to garner the attention.

On 2/13/2018 at 8:39 AM, The gun slinger said:

As long as the front office realizes that they can't find another Brees he's a one of kind. We may find a QB with some of the same traits like Green Bay did in Aaron Rodgers. If it's through the draft or free agency that we find our new QB we don't really know. I think it will be through the draft. Will it be this year we draft a QB no one knows but I think we draft one this year but I hope we don't trade the farm to move up to get him. As to which one,I haven't researched the QB class yet but I don't care for Mayfield he reminds me to much of Manzel. As long as we draft one that has some of Brees traits and our drafts under Ireland has been exceptional,I believe we will find the right one that is coachable and able to pickup the offense and when called upon execute and lead the team. It won't be easy replacing a future HOF QB but it has been done before and we will eventually have to,we just need to start the grooming process now.

 Gun Slinger, the one big difference I see from Mayfield to Manziel is the lack of entitlement. Manziel grew up with a silver spoon, Mayfield had to not only make it as a walk on, but also had to win the starting job, than win the Heisman and be a team captain all huge traits. Manziel didn't have to work for any of that. He was given it from day one. I want a guy who is a fighter at QB a guy like Brees that wasn't given a chance by anyone else. Brees had one offer to go to Purdue, no one else wanted him. No one wanted Mayfield, and he proved them all wring by winning the starting job and the Heisman along the way. Now he made mistakes, and hopefully learned from them, but his mistakes seemed to be from on the field incidents like taunting rather than from the off field incidents. I don't like them and they give me pause, but they are not the same kind o transgressions as Manziel. 

Speaking of Manziel ole dude is going Spring league route. Curious if he does make it back to the NFL. I remember Payton eating lunch with him curious if he or maybe a Parcells type bring him in for a tryout. I mean I would rather he turn his life around even if he is a career backup rather than reading another arrest report or an obituary. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/14/johnny-manziel-signs-deal-with-spring-league/

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One more thing to add is not only Brees heir, but the backup position. We currently only have Hill as our QB. One name to look at is Mike Glennon rumor was Payton liked him coming out of college. He is rumored to be a free agent soon as the Bear may want to cut him, and his salary. Do we resign Chase, do we purse another backup? A lot of questions at the most important position on the team. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/14/mike-glennon-expected-to-be-cut-by-bears/

 

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Just like Foster last year,everyone wanted him but I didn't it was just something about him that didn't sit well with me. Same thing with Mayfield, now I'm not saying he has bust written all over him but he's not the high character type that we've been drafting.

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I want a QB with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. Especially when they have done it their whole life. I want a QB like Favre, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Bradshaw. All were told sorry we don't think you have it. They said Namath couldn't win in the Super Bowl. They said the same thing to Russel Wilson when he was drafted, and Nick Foles in the Super Bowl. They also said it to our man Brees. Gun Slinger I'm not trying to change your mind, but I want this kid. Click the link he makes no apologies when they say he is too small and don't talk about his wins. I don't care for this sportsmanship of today helping opponents up when they get tackled. Joking with the opposition when they make a big play. I'm sorry football doesn't have to be as physical as it used to be in the way of hurting players, but I want a guy who has fire in his belly and wants to win. He wants to prove guys wrong. To me he has the IT factor. BTW I wanted nothing to do with Leinart. I didn't like his abilities in college or the pros. I preferred Manning over Leaf, and I did not like Akili Smith. I didn't liek Manziel and did not think he transitioned to pros well, his frame nor his style. I think this is our guy, and I say go get him. I preferred Wentz over Goff. I thought Goff would be better out the gates though. I want Mayfield over all the rest, and wanted Watson over the others too. For the record I was pretty high on Trevor Sieman, and think he could still do something with the right coach. JMO. He was better than Osweiler who I was never sold on either. Also never sold on Ryan Mallett, or Alex Smith. 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/15/baker-mayfield-resents-the-notion-that-height-matters/

Edited by Bonckers
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I just don't like him. It has nothing to do with physical ability or his stature. I have to give it to him he went to two different  schools as a walk on and wound up as the starting QB. That says a lot about his physical ability and his stature he's tough. But he has a lot of growing up to do,his maturity level is the same as Winstons. Every young man that gets drafted by the NFL is immature and are forced to grow up quick. I went back and did some research on him and thanks for the link it gave more insight on him. New Orleans is not the place for him. He'll get lost in Bourbon Street. Our locker room is very good but very young we went through a lot to fix that. We don't have enough veterans in the locker room to keep him reeled in. Just like Arizona was the perfect place for the honey badger,he needs to be in a place with the least distractions. If I'm wrong well I won't mind eating crow. That's just my take on him.

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Hey I respect that in all honesty I think the chances of us actually drafting him are slim to none. It would take a lot to move up and get him if that is even an option. We would need to have a partner in mind and know what said partner would want in compensation, and to top it all off he would have to be available when said partners pick comes onto the clock. So I'm not holding my breath. I do not ever want to see a Ricky Williams style trade, so I'll leave it at that. 

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Yeah it would take trade like what goofball Mike made to get him. I would love for once that we just sat back and let the draft come to us instead of moving up and giving away future picks. If we do go through the draft to get Dress heir,I have no doubt we'll find our guy. Since Ireland has been here we've been drafting a hell of a lot better. But now tell me,is there another qb in this class jumps out at you.

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So before I get sucked into speculations and mocking drafts, I want to illustrate first, how I see Brews future:

I see him playing another 2 years max. His deep ball has suffered significantly. Overall he looks less fit. Old seems getting to him. Anyway, we have to sign him first. I think, if we had finished 7-9 again, and hadn't had the draft we had, he may even not have wanted to sign. But in the situation we are, with this extremely young and talented team, he can compete another 2 years on  top notch level. Also, if we win the next SB, he will retire for sure. So, we might actually be in a hury to find someone.

 

Who to pick, I have no idea. But if we can get a QB in the 3-5th round, and our executives are convinced about him, then go and get a good guy. Our No7 is an ST-Ace, so he has a roster spot, anyway.I saw Kyle Laulettato going to the Saints in the 3rd round, in one of the mock drafts, but I really don't have an idea who he is.

 

Edited by boricko

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Gun Slinger the only guy I have liked all year has been Mayfield I liked Francious from FSU if he came out, but not at the top end of the first he would have been end of the 2nd or round 2 guy as he needs some seasoning. If we are talking later round guy keep an eye on Kyle Lauletta tore it up at the Senior Bowl. Don't know much about him, but he looked good there. He ran mostly shotgun stuff at senior bowl so not a whole lot to see from the game, but keep an eye on him. He had 3 TD passes and had some nice throws. 

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