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bigbrod81

OLB/DE Class of 2017

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1 hour ago, Bonckers said:

Anybody know anything about TJ Watt? He is JJ's little brother. Looks a little light in the weight department like needs to fill out but this highlight reel reminds me of his brother. I;m not saying he will be JJ, but he goes 100% like his big bro.  

 

 

TJ Watt is a very disruptive player. I watched him closely in the game against LSU & also in the Cotton Bowl vs Western Michigan. Where ever the ball is, you will find TJ Watt.

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Honestly if he falls to the 2nd whether we have picked a rusher or not it would be wise to take him. Especially if he can add weight to his frame in the tape I watched he looked like he has his brothers qualities you would want. Just not quit as seasoned yet. 

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Make no bones about it I want Barnett from Tennessee he is my top choice of who MIGHT be available at 11 or within trading range. Saying if he is gone I want Walker from FSU. Tell me who this speaks of in the breakdown below. 

  1. FloridaState_logo.gif Demarcus Walker, DE, Florida State 
    Height: 6-3. Weight: 281. 
    Projected 40 Time: 4.83. 
    Projected Round (2017): 1-2.
     
    1/14/17: Walker has had a phenomenal 2016 season that started with an electric opener of 4.5 sacks and two forced fumbles to help lead a huge Florida State comeback over Ole Miss. In 2016, he had 68 tackles with 16 sacks, 21.5 tackles for a loss, three forced fumbles and two passes batted. 

    Walker was a pass-rushing force at the point of attack. For the NFL, his body type would fit best as a 3-4 outside linebacker, and he might want to trim down some weight for that role. A lot of his best pass rushing came from the inside at tackle in obvious passing situations, so he could be a designated pass-rusher in a 4-3 defense as well. 

    9/3/16: While some were projecting Walker to be a first-round pick in the 2016 NFL Draft, WalterFootball.com sources shared that they were giving him second-day grades before he decided to return to the Seminoles. Walker enjoyed a breakout junior season with 10.5 sacks with 15.5 tackles for a loss, five passes batted, 58 tackles and four forced fumbles. He has a tweener body type for the NFL, but has shown the ability to get after the quarterback. As a sophomore, Walker recorded 38 tackles and a sack. 

    Walker is a bit short on length to be a 4-3 defensive end in the NFL. His body type also isn't a great fit to be a 3-4 outside linebacker or defensive end. The similar body type of former Florida defensive end/tackle Jonathan Bullard helped push him down to the third round of the 2016 NFL Draft.

 

To me this is Will Smith. He was too small, and not very long armed. The man talked about above is a leader on and off the field. He called his teammates out when needed and can be a captain of the team. He has two double digit sack seasons with his last one being 16 sacks. I am usually hard on FSU players, but Walker has done everything asked of him as a Senior and more. I would prefer Barnett as he is prototypical and I think has the higher ceiling with an already high floor. But I do feel Walker is a very good consolation prize. I honestly believe he has a higher floor than Barnett but I believe Barnett could be HOF material I do not believe Walker will be in that converation. 

 

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Solomon Thomas is really beginning to garner a lot of attention. Outside of Washington, Colorado & the second half run by USC, the Pac-12 was a disappointment this year. I didn't watch as many games as I normally do because of this. It sucks because Takk McKinley & Solomon Thomas are two serious potential draftees at the #11 spot. McKinley seems to be all over the place in every mock so he could potentially be there for us in the second round. I will get to him later but I want to talk Thomas right now. When you watch his video, he is force because of his strength & quickness for a big guy. What sticks out most is his versatility to play several techniques while lining up on the interior or on the edge. He is hands down the most versatile of the top rated defensive lineman in this class. His ability to shed blockers is the best of them all as well.

What is really beginning to intrigue me are the JJ Watt comparisons. Thomas' play is on the incline just as he is entering the NFL just like Watt but the comparisons don't end there. These two are similar from the size & build all the way to the technique they use to shed blockers. Count me in as Thomas being a guy we take if he is there. I want Barnett but I would not be upset with getting Thomas either.

Solomon Thomas plays like 'smaller version' of J.J. Watt

If J.J. Watt is the gold standard for NFL defensive ends, the club that drafts Stanford defensive end Solomon Thomas just might strike it rich.

At 6-feet-3, 273 pounds, the Cardinal junior doesn't have quite have the size or length of Watt, the Houston Texans' three-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year. But NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein believes Thomas is similar to the player Watt was as a draft prospect out of Wisconsin.

"J.J. was good at Wisconsin, but he wasn't dominant. His motor was relentless and you could see the talent, but it didn't really click for J.J. as far as how to use his strength and power until about halfway through his rookie year," Zierlein said. "Thomas looks a lot like that right now. He's fluid, it looks effortless, he can string moves together. There's a wicked spin move there that he hasn't even fully developed yet. He can move around and play different spots. He doesn't have the arm length of a Watt and he's got to add some mass, but he looks like a smaller version of Watt. Both are physical freaks."

Zierlein said he was impressed with Thomas' play against some of the toughest competition he faced this season, against Notre Dame and Southern Cal. Although Thomas played some along the interior, he drew reps against three of the top tackles in college football in those two games: Chad Wheeler and Zach Banner of USC, and Mike McGlinchey of Notre Dame. Against the Fighting Irish, he recorded a game-high 12 tackles (10 solo) with 1.5 sacks and a forced fumble. Zierlein posted some impressive action from Thomas in that game via Twitter.

Thomas announced on Wednesday that he intends to file for early eligibility to enter the 2017 NFL Draft. NFL scouts have told Zierlein that Thomas could run as fast as a 4.58 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.

"I think he's a natural 5-tech who can rush the passer. But because he's such a good athlete, if you're an open minded defensive coordinator, you could let him play some 3-tech or even stand him up on the outside," Zierlein added. "He's so good with his hands, he can get to the quarterback from the inside. He won't let guys get a square shot. His hands and feet work in perfect unison and he's always working the blocker's edge. Once he's in that seam, you're finished."

Thomas led Stanford in tackles for loss (13.5) and sacks (7) this season, and was a dominant presence in the Cardinal's Sun Bowl win over North Carolina.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769732/article/solomon-thomas-plays-like-smaller-version-of-jj-watt

2017 NFL Draft Preview: Solomon Thomas

Solomon Thomas is headed to the NFL, now it’s time to break down how he will perform there

627087334.0.jpg

After the conclusion of the 2016 season, Solomon Thomas called it a career for his college days and is headed to the 2017 NFL draft. Now it is time to break down his possible impact in the NFL and how the Cardinal will replace his impact on the defense.

Over the two seasons that Thomas saw the field, he recorded 11.5 sacks with 25.5 tackles for loss and two touchdowns. He also recorded 101 tackles in his time at Stanford, all while eating up innumerable double teams and helped free up other edge rushers or linebackers to get to the quarterback. But can he translate to the next level?

With the increased importance of the quarterback and the rise of the passing attack, the edge rusher has become ever more important to NFL defenses. At 6’3” and 273 pounds, along with a 40 yard dash time that hovers around 4.58, he fits the mold of the pass rusher that NFL teams want. But Thomas is also at his healthiest going into the draft after adding 30 pounds of muscle and dropping fat in the offseason, he is now faster and stronger than ever. He hit 30 reps of 225 on the bench press and dropped his 40 time buy .2 seconds while getting his body fat to 8.1 percent. He also posted a 10’2” broad jump with a 34” on his vertical.

Pro Comparison - Michael Bennett of the Seattle Seahawks

While the offensive lines of pro football are really good, his ability to bull rush or try and speed rush around the edge gives him a few things to throw at a guard or tackle. He also is athletic enough to play allover the defensive line but fast enough to play back at outside linebacker and drop into the flat to fake the blitz. This is why my comparison is Bennett, instead of J.J. Watt, who I see lots of writers are comparing him to. This year Bennett lined up in no less then six spots on the defensive front this year alone, but he also played them in different ways. He was able to play with his hand in the ground or standing up in all four spots on the defensive line as well as getting snaps at inside and outside linebacker. This shows that he can rush the passer (obviously) but is also able to back out when standing up and play in coverage. His ability to play at defensive tackle or on the edge shows his size and strength coupled with blinding speed at his size. Solomon Thomashas all those raw variables and is trending in the right direction physically headed into the draft.

 

Where He Ends Up

Like I said, edge rushers are in high demand but there are some teams who have a more pressing need for a edge rusher and quarterback killer than others. The New York Jets, Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders and Kansas City Chiefs all had under 30 sacks this year. While the Chiefs had injuries on the line the Raiders and Jets were to surprisingly bad teams with the talent they have in their front seven. Look for them to add an edge rusher in the early rounds.

While Thomas is a great talent and looks pro ready right out of the raft, he is in the same draft as Myles Garrett and Jonathan Allen. This means he is probably going to be a late first round or second round pick. This adds better teams with middle of the road pass rush to the mix like the New England Patriots, Dallas Cowboys or Pittsburgh Steelers.

Best Fit- Pittsburgh

I really think that this is the best fit for Thomas. He would be put in a front with other young studs in Alvin Dupree and Ryan Shazier. Both these players are also versatile, which makes the idea of throwing Thomas in the mix even more tantalizing because the options are endless with where everyone would line up and how they could show you all different kinds of blitz and stunts to attack the quarterback. This defense also has the seventh best offense in the NFL, which means there is less pressure on the defense because of the assurance of their offense putting up plenty of points.

 

The Stanford Recovery

While the talent of Thomas is irreplaceable, Stanford has put lots of guys in the NFL and found was to find new talent to add to the roster. Curtis Robinson at linebacker was one of my favorite players from last year’s recruiting class that has spent a year learning the system and is primed for a breakout year this season.

http://www.ruleoftree.com/2017/1/10/14196148/2017-nfl-draft-solomon-thomas-stanford-cardinal-pittsburgh-steelers-cleveland-browns-seahawks-jets

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Out of all of these DE/OLB prospects, Takk is the rawest of them all but the upside is huge. Myles Garrett is the only one who is more gifted physically. Just watching his highlights, the thought that pops up in my head is the way Mike Singletary described Rickey Jackson & that's he is just a raw football player. With the right coaching, this guy will be a monster. I see a bit of Aldon Smith & Javon Kearse in him with his long arms. McKinley understands how to use them in an extremely violent manner. I said this before but I really trust Jim Mora Jr in his development of defensive players. The book is open on Myles Jack as he was "redshirted" by the Jags but Anthony Barr & Eric Kendricks are studs for the Vikings. Also DT, Kenny Clark, who was drafted by the Packers had a solid rookie season. Mora recruits defensive talent at UCLA & coaches them up really well. McKinley is getting DeMarcus Ware comparisons from NFL scouts.

Scout: UCLA's Takkarist McKinley could be next DeMarcus Ware

An NFL scout sees DeMarcus Ware-like potential in UCLA DE Takkarist McKinley.

"Terrific speed off the edge," the scout told MMQB. "Perfect for a 3-4 linebacker in the NFL. Could be the next DeMarcus Ware. Freak athlete."

As a senior, McKinley (6-foot-2, 265 pounds) will be eligible for the 2017 NFL Draft, and is in the midst of the most productive season of his college career. With a team-high nine tackles for loss, he's made a big impact on the Pac-12's fourth-ranked defense. In six games, he's recorded four sacks, matching his 13-game total from all of last season.

Ware was the Cowboys' first-round draft pick (No. 11 overall) in 2005. He played at Troy and thus didn't face the level of competition McKinley sees in the Pac-12, but the Cowboys' investment paid off handsomely. Ware, a nine-time Pro Bowler, amassed 115 regular-season sacks for the Cowboys over nine seasons before joining the Denver Broncos in 2014.

The scout also noted McKinley has run the 100 meters in 10.58 seconds. Of course, that was some 30 pounds and roughly four years ago, when McKinley was a high school track runner at 230 pounds. At Kennedy High School, he clocked his 10.58 in a preliminary heat of the state track meet in 2012.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000723901/article/scout-uclas-takkarist-mckinley-could-be-next-demarcus-ware

Takkarist McKinley, UCLA

McKinley first caught our eye in 2014, as he picked up 16 pressures on only 102 rushes, and he’s improved his game every year since. This season, his 88.2 overall grade ranks seventh among edge defenders with a well-rounded 85.9 grade against the run and an 86.5 mark as a pass-rusher. McKinley has nine sacks, seven QB hits, and 26 hurries on only 227 rushes this season.

Tak-McKinley-Strip-sack-1.gif

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-pff-dream-team-college-footballs-best-seniors-at-every-position/

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8 hours ago, bigbrod81 said:

 

 

 

While Thomas is a great talent and looks pro ready right out of the raft, he is in the same draft as Myles Garrett and Jonathan Allen. This means he is probably going to be a late first round or second round pick.

I'm going to disagree here. Mike D already has him going top 10. If he pops > 30 reps and runs a 4.5 at the combine he could be a top 5-6 selection.  

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I agree Face, he has tape to back up numbers. If he has those numbers in the combine no way he makes it out of the top 10. The only way he makes it to us if there are more QB's taken higher than projected right now. 

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Malik McDowell seems like a boom or bust prospect. This breakdown shows is a jack of all trades along the defensive line but a master of none. The potential is definitely there & you see it but the dilemma is, can you get him to reach his full potential?

 

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On 2/11/2017 at 3:34 PM, Bonckers said:

He would be my top choice after Garrett, but we will not get Garrett.

This guy who does these videos will release a Myles Garrett vs Cam Robinson tomorrow which will feature all 3 matchups being both players started as true freshman. I will link it up as it gets posted up on Youtube.

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Thanks that will be fun to watch. Wonder what we do in free agency at the position. Being reported that the Giants are trying to re sign JPP which would make the few who will be available even harder to get. 

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Myles Garrett vs Cam Robinson. Cam won the majority of the battles from their matchup in 2016 but it doesn't seem to be because of him dominating Garrett. The breakdown looks like a John Chavis special where Garrett was instructed to never use an inside move on Robinson to keep Jalen Hurts from being able to break the pocket to the outside. Chavis is a pass rush killer. Too often Danielle Hunter was asked to do the same things as Myles Garrett had to do in this game.

 

 

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Figured I would drop this here. A lot of people are talking about how just big he is. If he could refine some techniques he is a mammoth of a man who can move for his size. 

 

 

 

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After reading many scouting reports about Derek Barnett may not being as quick twitch as soon some pass rushers in this class, I was anxious to see his short shuttle time. Even while fighting off a virus, Barnett did not disappoint. I've seen comparisons to Terrell Suggs made with Barnett & the numbers both put up at their respective combines are eerily similar. Suggs ran a 4.88 40 yard dash. So did Barnett. Suggs had a 4.33 in the short shuttle. Barnett posted a 4.44. To those reports who question Barnett's ability, I just refer back to Suggs quote when doubts arose after his combine performance. 

"I didn't do as good as I want. Some teams might grade me down. In my opinion football speed and track speed are totally different things. Just look at me play football. I can play football."

COMBINE RESULTS

  • 40 YARD DASH: 4.88 SEC
  • VERTICAL JUMP: 31.0 INCH
  • BROAD JUMP: 117.0 INCH
  • 3 CONE DRILL: 6.96 SEC
  • 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.44 SEC

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/derek-barnett?id=2557984

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I was very disappointed in Takk McKinley's performance. I thought he would perform much better then he did. He had a very pedestrian 4.69 short shuttle & 33 inch vertical. His 4.59 40 & 122 inch broad jump is really good though. Takk will require surgery for a torn labrum that will have him sidelined for 4-6 months.

COMBINE STATS

  • 40 YARD DASH: 4.59 SEC
  • BENCH PRESS: 24 REPS
  • VERTICAL JUMP: 33.0 INCH
  • BROAD JUMP: 122.0 INCH
  • 3 CONE DRILL: 7.48 SEC
  • 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.62 SEC

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/takkarist-mckinley?id=2557872

 

Likely first-rounder Takk McKinley to have shoulder surgery after Combine

459437222.jpg?w=500

Teams at the NFL Scouting Combine better get a good look at UCLA defensive end Takkarist McKinley today in drills, because they won’t see him in action until training camp at the soonest.

Via Jeff Legwold of ESPN, the likely first-rounder will have surgery on his right shoulder Monday and will be out four to six months to recover. But first, he’s going to go through all the position drills today, since he’s been playing through the injury for most of the last two seasons.

“My agent asked if anything was wrong with me, and I said I had a shoulder that was sometimes bothering me,” McKinley said. “I had an MRI and the doctor was pretty much amazed I had played with it. Me, I just told my trainers at UCLA, ‘Just tape me up I’m ready to go.’

“Why get surgery before the combine? This is a dream come true to me. I’m here to knock it out.”

Some teams could be leery of investing in a player who could miss training camp while rehabbing, the same way UCLA linebacker Myles Jack slid to the second round last year

One of the top pass-rushing prospects in the draft, McKinley had 10 sacks for the Bruins last year.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/05/likely-first-rounder-takk-mckinley-to-have-shoulder-surgery-after-combine/

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Solomon Thomas is an absolute monster when you matchup what he showed on film to his combine results. This is unbelievably freakish for a man his size. He probably solidified himself as a top 5 pick barring quarterback needy teams passing over him.

Solomon Thomas (DE)

HT: 6'3" WT: 273LBS.

POSITION: DE

SCHOOL: Stanford

 

COMBINE STATS

  • 40 YARD DASH: 4.69 SEC
  • BENCH PRESS: 30 REPS
  • VERTICAL JUMP: 35.0 INCH
  • BROAD JUMP: 126.0 INCH
  • 3 CONE DRILL: 6.95 SEC
  • 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.28 SEC

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/solomon-thomas?id=2558018

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38 Special: Instant-impact players in 2017 NFL Draft

 

3. Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford

Explosive defender who combines strength, quickness, and a muscle-car motor to drive him around the field making play after play. Has the hands and feet to be a quick-win specialist and the size to fit as a 4-3 or 3-4 defensive end who can reduce inside for pass-rush downs. He has all the athletic traits to become a high-impact player and possesses more than enough skill and talent to continue to elevate his game as a pro. Thomas has the potential to become the best defender from this draft class and a future All-Pro.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000786918/article/38-special-instantimpact-players-in-2017-nfl-draft

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I like guys with a high floor for picks in the first round and early second.

Myles Garrett - duh.  Best edge guy I have seen in a few years. 
Derek Barnett - Just a solid football player.  He can play multiple positions and is constantly disruptive.
JJ Watt - I like his game.  He owned some teams, especially high level competition.  Can take over a game.  He is my #1 rush OLB.
Carl Lawson - lowest floor of the 4, but man-o-man the guy has the numbers.  

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Now that we have the Pat's 1st rounder courtesy of the Cooks trade, it does give us the option of addressing DE at the end of round 1 rather than at 11.  One of the guys that has all of the tools (but perhaps should have been hungrier on the field while in college) is Taco Charlton.

He did start to really turn things on during his senior season, though, so maybe he is maturing at the right time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/taco-charlton?id=2557882

This guy is an intriguing prospect.

 

Charlton is an ascending prospect with the size, length, athleticism and pass-rushing potential that NFL general managers dream of. What you see today might not be what you get. While his production coming out of college will be modest, he could become a substantially better player as a pro if he's committed to the weight room and willing to absorb coaching. High-impact defensive end with all-pro potential is his ceiling. His floor is solid starter.

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One guy who I like is Jordan Willis from Kansas State. He is a team captain with good production, and he tested off the charts at the combine. He had been a 2nd round grade prior to the combine was in top 5 of almost all categories at the combine. I would not mind getting two DE's in the first round if it is Barnette and him they would very likely be BPA and also we would still have a second and two thirds to add a CB. I like Witherspoon from Colorado who has anywhere from a 2nd to 4th round grade. He is a linger corner who has good production through his whole career. 

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24 minutes ago, herb said:

Now that we have the Pat's 1st rounder courtesy of the Cooks trade, it does give us the option of addressing DE at the end of round 1 rather than at 11.  One of the guys that has all of the tools (but perhaps should have been hungrier on the field while in college) is Taco Charlton.

He did start to really turn things on during his senior season, though, so maybe he is maturing at the right time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/taco-charlton?id=2557882

This guy is an intriguing prospect.

 

Charlton is an ascending prospect with the size, length, athleticism and pass-rushing potential that NFL general managers dream of. What you see today might not be what you get. While his production coming out of college will be modest, he could become a substantially better player as a pro if he's committed to the weight room and willing to absorb coaching. High-impact defensive end with all-pro potential is his ceiling. His floor is solid starter.

My only knock on Charlton would be when Michigan played FSU in the bowl game he only had one sack. FSU had a horrendous Offensive line this year and if he is a 1st round talent rusher he should have had several more pressures and sacks. Francios got his butt handed to him all season and there was not much pressure outside of the one huge hit charlton laid on him that temp. knocked him out of the game. 

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16 minutes ago, Bonckers said:

My only knock on Charlton would be when Michigan played FSU in the bowl game he only had one sack. FSU had a horrendous Offensive line this year and if he is a 1st round talent rusher he should have had several more pressures and sacks. Francios got his butt handed to him all season and there was not much pressure outside of the one huge hit charlton laid on him that temp. knocked him out of the game. 

Outside of Garrett and Thomas, every other DE projected in the 1st round/early 2nd has at least one serious question mark.  

Barnett seems solid overall but the knock against him is that there is nothing that he is 'great' at and he does not have the overall athleticism as others. McKinley and Lawson both seem to not have the bulk you need at DE in the NFL. Jonathan Allen has too much bulk and looks more like a DT. McDowell and Charlton look like they have a lot of potential, but the question marks seem to be on their motor/motivation and productivity.

I like Barnett out of the group because he seems overall solid, can play multiple roles on the line, and does not seem to be a "boom  bust" type of guy.  The problem is that I think he might get snatched up before our turn to pick at 11 rolls around.

Because of that, we might use the 11th pick to address a different position (ILB, CB, S, OL, etc.) and look at DL at the end of round 1 or round 2. I know I am probably in the minority in not being surprised or upset if we address those needs 1st and look at DE after pick 11.

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I don't think you are the minority. Honestly if Barnett, Myles, Thomas, and Allen are gone which is a good possibility I think they should look elsewhere other than DE. My concern is what if Cooks and or Fournette are there. As much as I like them both I would prefer we go defense as much as possible in this draft. I realize not every pick may be defense, but I really want two defensive players taken in the first round if we hold onto both picks. Which I would prefer unless we get a team who offers us a good deal to drop back. 

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We are either gonna score big on this draft class or gnash our teeth about it for a decade.

This reminds me called, "Embarrassment of Riches".  A US submarine commander who saw 2 lines of IJN ships heading his way.  After seeing the 1st line, the captain was maneuvering to try to get the perfect shot, then the second line came into view.  The second line consisted of all capital ships.  Seeing the better targets - he decided to try to line up for a shot on the second line.  However, by the time he got into position, the faster capital ships were out of range.  He then turned back to the other ships, but they too were out of range.  All for nothing. 

We need to take our shot and roll with it.   I hope these new scouts are doing their jobs.

 

Soloman Thomas, Johnathan Allen and Garret will be gone by the time we pick.  (Do y'all think Allen may fall with injury concerns?)

I love Malik McDowell's talent...   He has the ability to take over - but his penchant for slackin' has me concerned. 

I love Barnett's tape and his college repertoire, but will it translate?

TJ Watt and Mckinley are some of the safest bets in this class.  I really dig both of these guys.

Haason Reddick - I really like his highlights, but watching the 2 games I saw on YouTube, He was hard to find on lots of downs.  After I looked it up, he only played ~70% of defensive snaps.  Anyone know why?

not a Taco fan (the player - not the lunch) 

After watching more games of Carl Lawson, he has skills, but I do not think he has it under the helmet.

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