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bigbrod81

OLB/DE Class of 2017

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This class is top heavy with several excellent pass rushers who can make an immediate impact on a NFL defense. Just like the running back class there is one standout jewel & that's Myles Garrett but there will still be some very good/great rushers who after Garrett.

1. Myles Garrett 

 

2. Derek Barnett 

 

3. Carl Lawson

 

 

4. Tim Williams 

 

5. Demarcus Walker

 

 

Hopefully Bonck can give us some more info on Demarcus Walker.

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I like Walker a lot, but he disappears for long stretches in games. I will say this he has the Saints written all over him. He is a leader, and after taking the whopping FSU took against Louisville he vowed they would not be beaten they would not be beaten like that again. He held his teammates to that standard and they responded. They have played much better defensively. Even though he can go long periods of time without showing up in a game when it is crunch time he makes a play.  He is someone if we are picking in the mid first round I would not be upset with the pick. He has heart and he shows up every game especially when needed. He has the numbers to warrant a first round grade and came back to FSU as a senior because he wanted to finish on a higher note than last year. He may be a bit light, but he could play weakside DE opposite Jordan. He does play the run well too. They have him listed at 276, but I honestly don't think he is that big. He has a good first step, and can turn speed into power like you want in a rusher. Not sure he has the top end speed that most teams want, but again he has the heart and leadership to go with his 8.5 sacks this year. Especially considering he is the pass rush at FSU. they have a DT who pressures, (name escapes me) but Walker is that defense. 

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I watched about half of the Lawson tape, and man is he is gonna be good. His first step, and hands are great. He even bends good. Some team will get a very good pass risher in him. Curious f he can do that on the opposite side. Not sure he is big enough for the runs that come to that side in the NFL. Although he did play the run well t

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5 hours ago, Dru said:

Could we go back to the well at Alabama?  Guy reminds me of another Sheldon Rankins type player.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18163061/alabama-crimson-tide-jonathan-allen-best-player-college-football

I was thinking just yesterday that Allen reminds me a lot of Ndamukong Suh at Nebraska with ability to play inside & outside as a pass rusher in passing situations.

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Don't know much about Charles Harris, but he declared today. Looked at the WV tape, and was not overly impressed. Watched a little over half, and saw a lot of plays he took off. 

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My only concern here is the level of competition. That didn't stop Kalil Mack from being a top 5 pick. Kpassagnon was literally unblockable at Villanova

 

 

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Tonight watch the FSU/Michigan game. Walker is number 2 in the nation with 15 sacks. He plays all over the D line, and every team game plans for him as he is the best D lineman by far on the team. I think he will be a mid first round pick so he could be our guy. Watch tonight he will not take a play off and he is a leader. I hope he shows tonight for his sake. I am hoping for an FSU win, but I believe Michigan beats them by wearing down the defense. FSU will be short a few defenders due to injuries. They will return something like all but 2 starters next year on defense so they will be a team to watch out for. 

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Mike D. says he's probably going top 10. Once Thomas gets his hands on the ball carrier or Qb. they become part of the earth quickly. Cam Newton would slide to avoid contact with this man. He has the strength of a Grizzly.

 

 

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I'm all for taking BPA, but I think we really need a rusher much more than another interior d lineman. We need someone opposite of Jordan really bad. I hope we fill through free agency and the draft as that is a hard position to fill. 

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2 hours ago, Bonckers said:

I'm all for taking BPA, but I think we really need a rusher much more than another interior d lineman. We need someone opposite of Jordan really bad. I hope we fill through free agency and the draft as that is a hard position to fill. 

Thomas is a DE

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Sorry when I looked at the tape most of the plays he was lined up against a interior player. Couldn't see if it was a TE on the outside or a tackle, but most of his highlights came against a guard. I could be wrong sorry. If he is a true defensive end I want one who is gong to line up on the weakside (over LT) he seemed to rush over the right side of the line. We need someone opposite Jordan not someone who lines up same side. I am not in charge so I don't make that call either way. Just what I feel we need badly. 

 

EDIT:

I went back and re watched the video above. I did not see one highlight where he is lined up at Right Defensive End. All the sack plays in the above tape he is going against a guard. He did make nice plays against RT's against the run, but again I feel we need a Right Defensive end someone who consistently plays against the LT and wins. I am not saying he cannot, but the tape above does not show it. He may very well be able to do that. We have a player at left defensive end who is on the best in the league in CJ so I don't feel it is necessary to get another one considering he plays more down than almost any other player on the roster on defense. Now I would never knock him if he is BPA you take him, but if there are DE's on the board closely graded and he is the left DE, and the other is a right DE you take the right one hands down in my book. Again JMO. I personally think he is a clone of Jordan a great run defender who is a good against RT but not LT. 

Edited by Bonckers

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3 hours ago, Bonckers said:

Sorry when I looked at the tape most of the plays he was lined up against a interior player. Couldn't see if it was a TE on the outside or a tackle, but most of his highlights came against a guard. I could be wrong sorry. If he is a true defensive end I want one who is gong to line up on the weakside (over LT) he seemed to rush over the right side of the line. We need someone opposite Jordan not someone who lines up same side. I am not in charge so I don't make that call either way. Just what I feel we need badly. 

 

EDIT:

I went back and re watched the video above. I did not see one highlight where he is lined up at Right Defensive End. All the sack plays in the above tape he is going against a guard. He did make nice plays against RT's against the run, but again I feel we need a Right Defensive end someone who consistently plays against the LT and wins. I am not saying he cannot, but the tape above does not show it. He may very well be able to do that. We have a player at left defensive end who is on the best in the league in CJ so I don't feel it is necessary to get another one considering he plays more down than almost any other player on the roster on defense. Now I would never knock him if he is BPA you take him, but if there are DE's on the board closely graded and he is the left DE, and the other is a right DE you take the right one hands down in my book. Again JMO. I personally think he is a clone of Jordan a great run defender who is a good against RT but not LT. 

He lines up at all positions positions on the D-line. Mike D just comapared him to JJ  Watt. If he runs the expected 4.58 at the combine,he'll be drafted 2nd behind Garret as a pass rusher.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769732/article/solomon-thomas-plays-like-smaller-version-of-jj-watt

 

"I think he's a natural 5-tech who can rush the passer. But because he's such a good athlete, if you're an open minded defensive coordinator, you could let him play some 3-tech or even stand him up on the outside," Zierlein added. "He's so good with his hands, he can get to the quarterback from the inside. He won't let guys get a square shot. His hands and feet work in perfect unison and he's always working the blocker's edge. Once he's in that seam, you're finished."

 

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Again I'm all for BPA, but my first preference is a true 7 or 9 technique which is the player who lines up over the LT. Again I'm not saying he can't play that I just want to know for sure we have a good one week 1 next season he could be it. 

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I was already beginning to question Tim Williams weight & his ability against the run with Nick Saban using him mostly as a situational pass rushing specialist but this just seals it even more for me concerning Williams. DO NOT WANT.

 

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I watched this entire game & Derek Barnett was just an absolute handful to block all game long. If Barnett falls to us at #11, it would be a no brainer not to take him. I will do a thorough breakdown as to why I feel Barnett is not only the best DE in this draft but he is future Hall of Famer barring an injury riddled career.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-barnett-vs-nebraska-2016/

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I haven't watched any tape other than the link. he looked very good in that tape. Only beat on holds. He is the exact player we need. An speed edge rusher with power and bend. He would be the perfect compliment to who we already have on the roster. He would force the QB up in the pocket, and towards Jordan. I would love to have him at 11, just not sure he will fall that far. 

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1 minute ago, Bonckers said:

I haven't watched any tape other than the link. he looked very good in that tape. Only beat on holds. He is the exact player we need. An speed edge rusher with power and bend. He would be the perfect compliment to who we already have on the roster. He would force the QB up in the pocket, and towards Jordan. I would love to have him at 11, just not sure he will fall that far. 

He is also a force against the run too. Barnett is not a one trick pony. There are also other intangibles concerning him as to why I feel the way I do about Barnett. I'm not one to want to trade up but Derek Barnett is a guy you move to get if he is still on the board, just a few spots away especially being that he plugs a major hole on our defense but Barnett is so much more valuable than just for his on field production. Once I put together this breakdown, everyone will get a clearer picture of my extreme stance surrounding him. I'm working on finding all the links & right quotes that I need at this very moment.

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2 hours ago, bigbrod81 said:

I was already beginning to question Tim Williams weight & his ability against the run with Nick Saban using him mostly as a situational pass rushing specialist but this just seals it even more for me concerning Williams. DO NOT WANT.

 

Beat me to posting this. Saw it earlier. He had 2 tackles 0 sacks 0 pressures against Clemson. That's a pretty good impersonation of the invisible man

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Anybody know anything about TJ Watt? He is JJ's little brother. Looks a little light in the weight department like needs to fill out but this highlight reel reminds me of his brother. I;m not saying he will be JJ, but he goes 100% like his big bro.  

 

 

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This article says he switched from TE to DE/OLB. So he only has two years rushing experience. Good numbers though.

 

 http://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/t-j-watt-living-on-the-edge-ready/

 

FRS NFL

Wisconsin’s T.J. Watt is one of the biggest wild cards in the NFL draft

Kyle Crabbs
Posted on Jan 13, 2017
ARLINGTON, TX - JANUARY 02: Wisconsin Badgers linebacker T.J. Watt (42) during the Goodyear Cotton Bowl Classic between Western Michigan Broncos and Wisconsin Badgers on January 2, 2017, at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, TX. Wisconsin defeats Western Michigan 24-16. (Photo by Andrew Dieb/Icon Sportswire)
(ANDREW DIEB/ICON SPORTSWIRE)

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before. A disruptive defender from Madison, Wisconsin. A high motor and a technician, yet also a “limited” athlete. Goes by the name “Watt.” You’re not having deja vu; there’s another member of the Watt family coming through the draft process, six years after brother J.J. was picked 11th overall.

Sure, the Watt family also pumped out FB Derek in 2015, but this one feels different. T.J. Watt has declared himself eligible for the NFL Draft a year early, capitalizing on a season which he logged 11.5 sacks and 15.5 tackles for loss. Don’t get duped by the box score or the name; however, T.J. is his own brand of football while still very much cut from the same cloth.

UPSIDE IS PRESENT

Watt, a redshirt junior, sat out the 2014 season with a patellar subluxation and the subsequent surgery. Prior to that, Watt was a highly coveted tight end recruit. He’s got two years of defensive play at the FBS level. So Watt needs to work on the finer points of defensive line/linebacker play, yes? No, not exactly. Watt has an incredible level of football intelligence and understanding of how to implement finer techniques into live action.

For example, Watt has much greater pop and usage of length than one would expect out of a 6-foot-5, 243-pound outside rush LB. His ability to beat offensive tackles is illustrated through his hands as well. Watt does not illustrate the ideal burst or lean you’d want out of a premiere pass rusher, yet his wins still come consistently thanks to a versatile rush arsenal.

As productive as Watt was in spite of limited experience, here’s the scary thing: there’s room to grow. Watt missed out on a lot of penetration and splash plays due to failing to come to balance prior to contact. So while his film is littered with examples of high-quality hand techniques and run fits, he needs to do more prior to tackle attempts to guarantee the ball carrier ends up on the ground. As productive as his junior tape was, it could have been much, much more eye-popping.

DON’T TAKE THE CHEESE

 

It would be easy to dismiss or crown Watt due to his family lineage. “He’ll never be J.J.” or “He’s a Watt” aren’t fair to bring into the conversation. Too frequently we hear people dismiss prospects based on their family, their school, their background or for any other various number of reasons. Scout the player in a vacuum first and *THEN* take into account the player’s history.

USC Trojan wide receivers are not guaranteed failure in the NFL just because they attended USC. Just like Tennessee Volunteer QBs aren’t guaranteed success because Peyton Manning hails from Knoxville. Such dots are fun to connect, but they’re also lazy. Don’t take the bait with T.J; watch the tape and let it speak to you.

What the film says to me? Watt is a highly intelligent football player. His play recognition skills and ability to diagnose plays quickly is top notch. He does very well to stay disciplined and execute his primary responsibility on the snap; even if it’s slanting across the face of an OT to occupy on stunts and allow a teammate to rush free off his hip. Watt is rarely caught out of position, which is a delight when considering how seasoned he is.

Watt does need to fill out that frame; he’s pretty lean and could stand to add 10 pounds of muscle onto his body to help him with holding the point of attack at the next level. The question is how well he sustains his tilt throughout the body to corner with speed. It’s in his best interests to keep his twitch first and foremost and work from there.

VALUATION

Let’s put this out there: there’s more than one archetype for the EDGE position. Some win with speed, some win with bend. Watt can and does win with length and hands. He doesn’t have the athletic ceiling of others in the class, yet he has strong football intelligence, a motor that doesn’t turn off and excellent worth with his hands.

All things considered, a team that is willing to split his reps rushing the passer and playing in space would be well served to consider selecting T.J. Watt inside the top 64. He’s got the room to grow and his development, in spite of a lack of playing time, makes him one of the wildcards of the class.

 

 

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Ok, we've seen the highlights & numbers surrounding Derek Barnett. Those aspects are why he is being discussed as a top 10 pick in the upcoming draft. I'm about to get into other intangibles that separate Barnett head & shoulders from the other DE prospects in this draft. I'm talking about the type of intangibles found in players who now have their busts in Canton.

I will start out with the point of the game where Barnett seems to make his biggest impact. It just so happens he brings his level of intensity even higher in the second half of games but more importantly, in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. Anyone who watched Khalil Mack & what he did for the Raiders this season, will understand what I'm getting at. When the game was on the line especially in the 4th quarter, Mack transformed into this unblockable, one man wrecking crew, getting sacks, forcing turnovers & playing a role in getting big stops on 3rd & 4th down. Derek Barnett did those same things for the Vols this year. When the game was on the line Barnett was the finisher. His performances against Florida & Georgia are what really grabbed my attention with him.

The defensive end recorded one of the best performances of his career against Florida by taking over the game in the second half to inspire a valiant effort by the Volunteers' shorthanded defense.

"and I think his pads speak for themselves and the plays that he makes. We kind of feed off of his energy, and when he makes a play, he lets everybody know that I'm doing this for you all and I want to win the game and I have to do whatever it takes in order to do that.

"I feel like he took a big jump in his leadership from that game, and he's started to become more vocal. He let us know what we need to do and what he's going to do in order to win the game. I feel like that was a big step for him in the process."

Defensive coordinator Bob Shoop after the game told Bruce Feldman of Fox Sports that Barnett called out several of  his teammates for not responding to coaching during a practice last week. "That's what the alpha male is supposed to do, " Shoop told Feldman. "What he did for the team this week I'll never forget. It was pretty impressive." 

The most impressive part came in the second half, when Barnett had two sacks and a tackle for loss in a four-play span to end two Florida possessions.

"It was just Derek saying, 'Climb on my back, I got this,'" Shoop told Fox Sports. "I'm not sure I've ever had a player take over a game quite like he did for us."

"When I line down I see the guys beside me and I'm just like, let me make a big play," Barnett said. "And then if I make one, then someone else can make one. That's what I'm thinking about when I'm playing. Honestly, I just think, if I play good, the next guy's going to play good and then it's just an effect and everybody's going to play well."

http://www.columbiadailyherald.com/sports/20160928/as-leader-derek-barnett-speaks-with-his-play-to-inspire-vols

For the second straight Saturday, Derek Barnett drank some of ‘Michael’s Secret Stuff’ at halftime and turned into a Monstar from Space Jam.

With Tennessee trailing Georgia, 17-14, the Volunteers All-American pass rusher took over the game in the second half, recording 2 sacks, 2.5 tackles for loss and a forced fumble that led to a touchdown.

“I just made plays,” said the always reserved rusher.

True story.

After another slow start, Barnett and fellow defensive end Cory Vereen combined to disrupt Georgia’s offensive rhythm, as Bulldogs tackles Greg Pike and Tyler Catalina looked like turnstiles in pass protection.

Vereen had 4 tackles, a sack and recovered Barnett’s strip-sack of freshman quarterback Jacob Eason in the end zone late in the fourth quarter.

Deep in their own territory, the Bulldogs strangely tried to block Barnett 1-on-1 with a tight end, and the junior made the them pay. Vereen dove on the loose football and thought he’d won Tennessee the game.

https://www.seccountry.com/tennessee/sack-monsters-derek-barnett-cory-vereen-manhandle-georgias-ol-in-the-second-half

We can compare stats, highlights & physical measurables all day long but Barnett possesses two distinct traits that I have yet to see from or read about other DEs in this class having. I mentioned in the beginning that he takes his game to another level in crucial moments of games. That's what elite, all time greats do. Do not underestimate this trait.

The second trait involves leadership. All time greats have a knack for leading by example & getting fellow teammates to give their all from the film room, to the weight room, to the practice field & finally to game day. Barnett is that DUDE. He doesn't only possess the desire to be great himself but he wills other to push themselves above & beyond what they maybe capable of accomplishing. That trait alone is priceless. We have all seen this trait in Brees for years now. We saw in it Jonathan Vilma. Barnett has it. If a player isn't pulling his weight around, Barnett will let him know about it but do it in the right manner. 

Again, I'm not a fan of trading up but if Barnett falls to 3-4 picks away from pick 11, the Saints need to seriously consider doing what it takes to move up to get him. He is not just the best complete DE of this class but the leadership intangibles he will bring to a lockeroom simply cannot be measured. He is a face of the franchise type both from a talent & personality perspective. He is Hall of Fame material so you do everything within your power to go get him.

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24 minutes ago, faceman said:

Beat me to posting this. Saw it earlier. He had 2 tackles 0 sacks 0 pressures against Clemson. That's a pretty good impersonation of the invisible man

Tim Williams draft stock at the moment.

HospitableConcreteAtlanticridleyturtle.g

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I agree Brod if he is close come draft day we need to think about giving up a 3rd to jump up and get a player who will help anchor our d line for 10 years. He with Jordan, and Richardson would make a very scary D line for any opposing QB. I say we double dip this draft like the last one and take a 2nd rusher. I don't know who will be available later, but I want two edge rushers in this draft. I would also love one in free agency just in case we can't gt one in the draft. JMO. The trick is if he is gone do not reach for a rusher though. I also do not want to move u so far we have to give up a second this year or next. I would be willing to give up a 3rd though. 

 

EDIT:

I fully expect the following players to go before him.

Garrett

Fournette

Cook

King (best DB of the class)

Peppers

These may be gone before him

Allen

Watson

Robinson

 

After the above guys it gets real cloudy post combine and free agency we will know more. I truly expect the Brwons to trade out of the number 1 pick. They are so void of talent they need every pick they have this year and than some. AS of right now they have 13 picks. But they will trade for more. They are building through the draft. I don't see the money ball philosophy working, but they will throw a monkey wrench in this draft. 

 

 

 

Edited by Bonckers
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