Hermann the German

Can someone please fire Rob Ryan NOW!!!

86 posts in this topic

I don't know about "celebrating" but a decent amount of fans/posters on this site and others have been pretty adamant on "demanding" this firing. My comment is to them. . I myself have been a manager, responsible for hiring, firing, and evaluations. Even if I didn't like or respect the employee, I was never happy to fire anyone, no matter how terrible I judged they were. So, I hear ya Face.

Well, since I started this post I guess I am one of the posters you are referring to. I also hired and fired persons in my life, it is probably part of the business for most of us here. Fact is if you deliver results like RR did as a DC these past 15 months what do you expect? The firing was justified. If I had an employee like him, it is an easy decision for me every single time... There is always a personal side as well as a business side. I liked the person RR from what I have read about him but I did not like him as a DC for the Saints these past two years. 

He is a multi millionaire by now so at least I do not have to worry about him sleeping on the streets. We will see him again on the sidelines for another teams in the future...

Am I celebrating today? Not at all, but I sure feel damn relieved...;)

Edited by Hermann the German

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I don't think anyone is celebrating. I think someone has character flaws if they enjoy seeing someone get fired. I know these coaches are paid well,but they're still human beings. I think Ryan will wind up on his feet somewhere as a position coach. I wish him the best of luck. 

I feel the same way and fully realize the problem with the D goes far deeper than Ryan, as it has been pointed out, through 3 different DC's the presence of Vitt and Johnson has to be a factor in all of this. They need to look at position coaches as well and players that aren't playing hard or with purpose (Browner)....This firing to me falls in the category of they had to make a change, any change, we'll see if it makes any difference.

Richard, Haplo and Swede Saint like this

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If the def position coaches stay it will just be more of the same.  Maybe a slight improvement for a few games and then right back to a laughing stock.

 

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Rob Ryan, you always seemed like you'd be one h*ll of a fun guy to go grab a beer with. Those personalities are hard to play for, were you a coach, or a "buddy" (no pun intended, he won't ever be THAT buddy).

I don't believe this was the problem. The league is chock full of coordinators and position coaches that can be categorized as players coaches. I've been looking at other teams forums where Ryan has coached previously. The general consensus was he ran  very complex schemes which led to miscommunication and blown plays. The defense would start with one call. If the offense motions,the call is changed. If the offense audibles the play is changed again. In theory it should confuse the offense. In reality it confuses the defense because it's  difficult to get 11 guys on the same page when the original call has been changed 3-4 times pre snap. 

Neekie2212 likes this

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I don't think anyone here wanted him fired b/c of who he is as a person, I'd love to grab 1 or 15 beers and 8 pizzas w/ him myself. He embraced NOLA which embraced him back, and I can't ever recall a coaching personality who had this effect on the city like he did. It was strictly a performance based decision, and I can't imagine it was easy for SP or Loomis to do so. 

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don't believe this was the problem. The league is chock full of coordinators and position coaches that can be categorized as players coaches. I've been looking at other teams forums where Ryan has coached previously. The general consensus was he ran  very complex schemes which led to miscommunication and blown plays. The defense would start with one call. If the offense motions,the call is changed. If the offense audibles the play is changed again. In theory it should confuse the offense. In reality it confuses the defense because it's  difficult to get 11 guys on the same page when the original call has been changed 3-4 times pre snap.

My first thought was that Allen will simplify the defense and it is possible we could see some better results, we'll see.

I wonder if Ryan was appealing to Payton as a hire for the very reason above, cause it is similar in philosophy to how he runs the offense....

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I've hired and fired more than I can know after 15+ years and it sucks every damn time. You'd have to be a heartless person for it not to not bother you. You put time in with them, your own investment and time into someone and for them to disappoint reflects on them but if also reflects on what I didn't do or teach or coach along the way. Each failure is a learning experience and uniquely painful each time. I tell people, I've NEVER fired anyone, they fired themselves through their actions/inactions, I just have to go thru the motions of dismissing them.

applause-gif-tumblr-47.gif

nolaspe, Richard, phil and 3 others like this

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I am celebrating the Saints moving on from a coaching philosophy that was not working. Rob, as an individual, was as easy to like as any football coach I recall any of my favorite teams hiring. He seemed to enjoy his job, become part of the fabric of this city and its unique cultural singularity, and he was an adamant advocate for all of his players. In turn, you could tell by Keenan Lewis' defiant defense of his coach a season ago that they wanted to run through a wall for him. 

Still, that doesn't mean he was able to ply his particular scheme to the players and talent we had here. He was a big voice in the drafting of Stanley Jean-Baptiste so high, bringing in Brandon Browner, and a number of other questionable decisions. It was fairly baffling how he could see the talents of such players yet fail to employ schemes that would highlight their strengths.

In the end, we're incredibly young on defense and you have to adjust your scheme not only to fit the talent of the players available, but also know your personnel and curtail your packages to what they can truly be effective in running.

Richard, faceman, nolaspe and 1 other like this

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Well, since I started this post I guess I am one of the posters you are referring to. I also hired and fired persons in my life, it is probably part of the business for most of us here. Fact is if you deliver results like RR did as a DC these past 15 months what do you expect? The firing was justified. If I had an employee like him, it is an easy decision for me every single time... There is always a personal side as well as a business side. I liked the person RR from what I have read about him but I did not like him as a DC for the Saints these past two years. 

He is a multi millionaire by now so at least I do not have to worry about him sleeping on the streets. We will see him again on the sidelines for another teams in the future...

Am I celebrating today? Not at all, but I sure feel damn relieved...;)

I agree with you Herman, I too had to hire and fire people the firing part was never fun. Even had to fire my best friend before, so I don't usually hire friends anymore. I do not cheer that he lost his job, as I wish that on no one. I cheer that soething was done about the putrid defense. The guy was single handidly putting our players in bad positions on several plays. The DB's running off right before the ball snaps in goal line situations giving up easy slants for TD's drove me nuts. I would have fired Ryan as soon as the flight landed back in NO, but that is me. I understand Payton wanting to talk it out, and he probably needed authorization from Benson to eat the contract too. Again not celebrating he lost his job, but glad we are moving on, and trying something different. 

Richard and nolaspe like this

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OFC he appears to be a nice guy. But the results were not there. And instead of improving, I have the feeling, this defense is getting worse every week. I'm not the world best football expert, but my personal feeling is, that the defense's play is not reflecting the overall talent level of the players. They are simply underachiving, and who else, if not the coach, is responsible for that?

 

I also hired and fired throughout my career, but its a big difference, if you fire the father of three, single earner, with uncertain job perspective, or a guy who has set his financial issues for life.

Edited by boricko

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I think Rob Ryan was the "obvious" firing for now, with more assistants coming in the offseason. Dennis Allen has the experience on the defensive side of the football running the Broncos Defense in the past, our Secondary, our Dline, and some Quality Control work with the Falcons as well as serving as a defensive assistant.

The thing to keep in mind however is that Dennis Allen hasn't exactly shined in places where he's landed. In Denver his defenses managed to get some sacks, but were in the bottom tier of the league in regards to yards allowed (something the Saints have struggled with for quite some time). Even when we won the Super Bowl in 09, the Saints defense were ballhawks in regards to takeaways (want to say we were 2nd or 3rd in the league that year in interceptions), but still gave up 330+ yards/game. During his time with the Falcons they were in a bit of disarray with the firing of Dan Reeves, Wade Phillips as the interim, then eventual hiring of Jim Mora. They had the year that they went to the NFC Championship Game, but after that fell back into the dark ages with mediocrity and eventual hiring of Bobby Petrino. 

Allen was the obvious choice considering what was on hand, but we're still going to need a complete overhaul to the coaching on that side of the football. I've beaten this drum for the last few seasons now, but why Bill Johnson isn't on borrowed time (perhaps... he is?) is dumbfounding to me. 

What's interesting about both of the aforementioned folks is that they served together in Atlanta for a while. You know, in those years where Atlant'as defense wasn't exactly "great".

Since coming to the Saints in 09' post Gary Gibbs, here's the Saints defensive rankings with Johnson on the staff:

2009 - 25th in yards allowed / 13th in sacks

2010 - 4th in yards allowed / 19th in sacks

2011 - 24th in yards allowed / 20th in sacks

2012 - 32nd in yards allowed / 26th in sacks

2013 - 4th in yards allowed / 4th in sacks

2014 - 31st in yards allowed / 25th in sacks

There's been the argument made that these coaches "aren't the ones playing on Sundays" and that it's lack of talent, however there are very few exceptions of Saints defensive coaches molding/sculpting raw talent into bonafide pass rushers. 

This team won a championship with a high octane offense and an opportunistic defense. When the turnovers weren't coming, allowing yards were. Since the turnovers disappeared from existence, the real problems began to surface. Too many yards allowed, not enough pressure on the QB, and no real developed talent. Heck, one could even argue that defensive players regress under our staff.

Again, there needs to be a complete overhaul and for the first time, i wonder if Sean Payton is the man to do all of that.  

Edited by BlackNGold4Life
phil, Saint ATN, louder and 3 others like this

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